Model 3 Power Liftgate?

[Garlan Garner]

Thanks, @Garlan Garner, really appreciate the specifics, I get the picture. I was more worried about the funky clip.

But, one more question. In your case, did the top socket show visible deformation or cracking, or did the clip let go? Since you said "erodes", is there actual wear? I wonder if yours was dry and some e.g. silicone lubricant would make that less likely? Considering a lot of people have done this mod, let's get this crash Black-Box analyzed, LOL. Do you still have the failed 4129, can you take photos, pretty please?

Since I like the convenience, and the Tesla Red spring for color accent, I'm going to examine the mechanics on mine and try some measures to avert that sort of surprise. You probably hit it on the head with zip ties, nylon tie-wraps are very strong, and all that matters is retaining the strut should the ball joint fail. I'll post a photo when I've settled on what seems like a plausible solution, one that hopefully won't make anyone here even more terribly embarrassed. You know, like when you pull the hostage from the trunk, you don't want them pointing at your trunk hinges and snickering ...

And, hey, the StrongArm people are selling us a LOT of 4129s. Maybe we can put the fear o' Dog in 'em, and get some replacement metal ball sockets with mil-spec clips from them?

Yes....the socket eroded - not due to normal wear, but due to all of that pressure constantly on that ball/socket.

I believe the 4129 would last the lifetime of the car if it wasn't for the extra spring pressure. For goodness sake the 4129 is originally designed to open a Jeep Cherokee door.

 

[socaliwong]

I myself have the strut/spring setup and find that opening the trunk to be somewhat violent. Almost to a point where the trunk lid opens and lightly shakes the trunk. I think I shall remove these as I don't care to pay for a rear glass; on top of that closing the trunk leads me to leave fingerprints all over the place.

 

[Fernand]

Without photos it's impossible to say what happened, how and why. My Turkish StrongArm 4129s do use a rather flexible plastic for the ball socket, but that also makes it less likely to crack. There is dark moly type grease on the ball and socket, as well as flakes of the black paint that once covered the ball. The pressure is on the bottom of the ball socket, the strongest part, near the strut threading. If fully seated, the clip seems to grip the ball quite well. It's possible the clip was defective, or not fully engaged. The glass is very close. Nylon zip ties can be used to limit possible excursion towards the glass, but the angle to the metal hinge body changes by almost 90 degrees during operation, making it harder to tie down the strut.

 

[socaliwong]

Without photos it's impossible to say what happened, how and why. My Turkish StrongArm 4129s do use a rather flexible plastic for the ball socket, but that also makes it less likely to crack. There is dark moly type grease on the ball and socket, as well as flakes of the black paint that once covered the ball. The pressure is on the bottom of the ball socket, the strongest part, near the strut threading. If fully seated, the clip seems to grip the ball quite well. It's possible the clip was defective, or not fully engaged. The glass is very close. Nylon zip ties can be used to limit possible excursion towards the glass, but the angle to the metal hinge body changes by almost 90 degrees during operation, making it harder to tie down the strut.

I don't think any TM3 owners that have this Strongarm 4129 product being zip tied. Being how fragile TM3 window/glass has been lately, the violent opening of the setup, would tend to either breaking/cracking or even shattering with one failure. I'll just consider opening the trunk as exercise for the time being.

 

[Fernand]

Brian i1Tesla was very emphatic in discouraging anyone who has doubts from making the mod. It's understood that the mod places additional demands on the ball joint, the latch and the trunk hinges. @socaliwong your choice is your right choice.

I have the Turkish StrongArm struts, the 25x40 Hong Kong springs without a washer, and don't see the opening as "violent". The initial release kicks off just strong enough to start. In my eyes it's just about right. Really. A motorized lift has to overcome the same forces.

I sure would like to know exactly what happened on Garlan's unit. It's a real bummer that it happened, he's right to warn people. And it's great that he doesn't want to upset Brian, who's only trying to come up with useful mods, with no profit motive. Any mod entails some risk.

But assemblies like this don't just 'erode' - they wear, they crack, they distort, they lose the clip, the clip breaks, in other words they fail in very specific ways, so it's worth understanding the exact mechanism. It's entirely possible that once I do, I'll get very concerned and abandon the mod. For now I've added a couple of nylon tie-wraps below the ball joint to retain the strut should it snap out. I'm not recommending anything for anyone.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Brian i1Tesla was very emphatic in discouraging anyone who has doubts from making the mod. It's understood that the mod places additional demands on the ball joint, the latch and the trunk hinges. @socaliwong your choice is your right choice.

I have the Turkish StrongArm struts, the 25x40 Hong Kong springs without a washer, and don't see the opening as "violent". The initial release kicks off just strong enough to start. In my eyes it's just about right. Really. A motorized lift has to overcome the same forces.

I sure would like to know exactly what happened on Garlan's unit. It's a real bummer that it happened, he's right to warn people. And it's great that he doesn't want to upset Brian, who's only trying to come up with useful mods, with no profit motive. Any mod entails some risk.

But assemblies like this don't just 'erode' - they wear, they crack, they distort, they lose the clip, the clip breaks, in other words they fail in very specific ways, so it's worth understanding the exact mechanism. It's entirely possible that once I do, I'll get very concerned and abandon the mod. For now I've added a couple of nylon tie-wraps below the ball joint to retain the strut should it snap out. I'm not recommending anything for anyone.

What else do you want to know? I thought I explained it all.

 

[Garlan Garner]

BTW...the glass is $925 to replace.

 

[Fernand]

What else do you want to know? I thought I explained it all.

You just said it eroded and you attributed the incident to pressure from the spring. Forgive me, I'm not trying to be difficult, but that's all interpretation, conclusions. I'd want to know the actual observables.

It's not rocket science, and you have no trouble with words. So to be specific, what you see, things like if the plastic ball socket cracked, or bent, or came off the strut threading, or what, and where. How/why did the clip, which does the actual retention, not hold it on the ball? Can you see it displaced? Bent? Did it fall off? Did the plastic it sits on fall apart or separate from the strut? What exactly can you see that let go, and then what part of the strut seemed to have hit, where on the glass. Some pics of the damage, with a close-up or two of the failed ball socket/strut would really be extremely helpful. Please.

 

[Wennfred]

I removed the Red Springs just to be safe. I could see how the plastic housing could weaken up and give way.

Fred

 

[Garlan Garner]

You just said it eroded and you attributed the incident to pressure from the spring. Forgive me, I'm not trying to be difficult, but that's all interpretation, conclusions. I'd want to know the actual observables.

It's not rocket science, and you have no trouble with words. So to be specific, what you see, things like if the plastic ball socket cracked, or bent, or came off the strut threading, or what, and where. How/why did the clip, which does the actual retention, not hold it on the ball? Can you see it displaced? Bent? Did it fall off? Did the plastic it sits on fall apart or separate from the strut? What exactly can you see that let go, and then what part of the strut seemed to have hit, where on the glass. Some pics of the damage, with a close-up or two of the failed ball socket/strut would really be extremely helpful. Please.

The socked eroded due to the roughness of the rough surfaced ball constantly twisting inside of it - while under constant pressure.

The socket hole is much larger than it was originally. It started out smooth on the inside now its rough and beat up.

I can now just sit the socket onto the ball with no pressure necessary....there is no longer the initial push and snap when the socket was new. .

The metal clip that wraps around the socket to hold the socket onto the ball does nothing to hold the socket on to the ball. It has worn away also.

I took the socket off the 4129 and tapped it on the table and quite a bit of a black powder/shard plastic fell out....that to me looks like the bottom of the socket. - which is where the pressure would have been from the springs.

Remember. That spring pressure existed AT ALL TIMES on the 4129 sockets. Even during potholes hits which may have shifted the balls inside of the sockets.

I don't know what else to say other that the socket hole was worn down to the point where the socket hole is bigger than the ball.

I had the springs on since December...and now its May. I literally opened and closed my trunk at least 3 times a day. that's about 400 openings and 15K miles of driving.

The OEM struts show no signs of wear what-so-ever. That's understandable since there is no pressure on the sockets at all when the trunk is closed. The original struts are only there to hold the trunk up...when its opened.

 

[Fernand]

Thank you @Garlan Garner. These observations are very helpful.
Are your struts the Turkish StrongArms?

Even with the clip in its correctly seated position, your socket assembly
can now be freely moved on and off the ball?

Can you show where the glass was struck? A photo? Of the socket too?

What I observed when I checked last week, aside from the absence of
noticeable wear so far, was that originally the ball was painted black, and
that there were some flakes of black paint mixed with the grease. I'm going
to fully clean out the assembly, re-lube it clean, and take a look at what it
look like in a while. With nylon retainers I don't expect an incident like yours,
at least not in that time frame.

Without the spring to kick off the motion, there doesn't seem to be much
advantage over the factory struts, but no obvious disadvantage either.

thanks again!

 

[Trewendy]

Be really nice if this was a Tesla approved alteration.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Be really nice if this was a Tesla approved alteration.

The only alteration I could possibly envision is a motorized version.

 

[eyyopomps]

If you found the right size, I feel like you could just order 2 of something like this and wire them into the trunk release actuator yourself and it should still auto open and close with trunk button and app..

High Quality X6 E71 Auto Trunk Opener Oem 51247332698 2014 Rear Right Trunk Electric Tailgate Release Kits - Buy Auto Trunk Opener,High Quality Electric Liftgate,Automatic Trunk Electric Tailgate Product on Alibaba.com

 

[Garlan Garner]

One of the potential problems with this unit is that is reads CAN.

If Tesla changes CAN....then will this company re-program their unit for free to read the correct CAN?

 

[Kirby64]

One of the potential problems with this unit is that is reads CAN.

If Tesla changes CAN....then will this company re-program their unit for free to read the correct CAN?

Depends on if the module that actuates the trunk (which I assume reads those CAN commands as well) can be reprogrammed too. If it can't... then there's nothing Tesla can do.

There's aftermarket addons for this for the Model S too, and they don't seem to have any long term problems.

If you found the right size, I feel like you could just order 2 of something like this and wire them into the trunk release actuator yourself and it should still auto open and close with trunk button and app..

High Quality X6 E71 Auto Trunk Opener Oem 51247332698 2014 Rear Right Trunk Electric Tailgate Release Kits - Buy Auto Trunk Opener,High Quality Electric Liftgate,Automatic Trunk Electric Tailgate Product on Alibaba.com

You need a way to drive the trunk release actuator... the latch needs to be changed to accommodate the closing... and you need something to read the CAN connections. Given the trunk opener modules are $260 already, the rest of the kit being done for you isn't a bad deal at $600.

 

[Austindude]

Brian i1Tesla was very emphatic in discouraging anyone who has doubts from making the mod. It's understood that the mod places additional demands on the ball joint, the latch and the trunk hinges. @socaliwong your choice is your right choice.

I have the Turkish StrongArm struts, the 25x40 Hong Kong springs without a washer, and don't see the opening as "violent". The initial release kicks off just strong enough to start. In my eyes it's just about right. Really. A motorized lift has to overcome the same forces.

I sure would like to know exactly what happened on Garlan's unit. It's a real bummer that it happened, he's right to warn people. And it's great that he doesn't want to upset Brian, who's only trying to come up with useful mods, with no profit motive. Any mod entails some risk.

But assemblies like this don't just 'erode' - they wear, they crack, they distort, they lose the clip, the clip breaks, in other words they fail in very specific ways, so it's worth understanding the exact mechanism. It's entirely possible that once I do, I'll get very concerned and abandon the mod. For now I've added a couple of nylon tie-wraps below the ball joint to retain the strut should it snap out. I'm not recommending anything for anyone.

I'd love to see a close up of where you put the tie wrap. A tie wrap seems like cheap insurance if it works. Thanks.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Depends on if the module that actuates the trunk (which I assume reads those CAN commands as well) can be reprogrammed too. If it can't... then there's nothing Tesla can do.

There's aftermarket addons for this for the Model S too, and they don't seem to have any long term problems.



You need a way to drive the trunk release actuator... the latch needs to be changed to accommodate the closing... and you need something to read the CAN connections. Given the trunk opener modules are $260 already, the rest of the kit being done for you isn't a bad deal at $600.

Wait a min....I would never expect Tesla to adjust their CAN messages to fit any 3rd party devices.

I would like the 3rd party to adjust its CAN reader to whatever Tesla creates. Tesla runs its CAN ship.

Tesla has changed its CAN addressing in the model 3 once already. I can't remember the update, but the addressing changed. I had to adjust my SavyCan.

 

[lynnpt2001]

I think Hyundai did this the best, you stand at the back of the car with the key fob, or in this case your phone, in 3 seconds the gate will open, no foot, no hands, no effort, it just happens. You do have to push a button to close it but it is very convenient when carrying items to load in trunk.

 

[Kirby64]

Wait a min....I would never expect Tesla to adjust their CAN messages to fit any 3rd party devices.

I would like the 3rd party to adjust its CAN reader to whatever Tesla creates. Tesla runs its CAN ship.

Tesla has changed its CAN addressing in the model 3 once already. I can't remember the update, but the addressing changed. I had to adjust my SavyCan.

I'm suggesting that it's possible (I don't know this for sure) that the CAN module that is connected to the trunk actuator cannot be reprogrammed.

Also, I don't see any reason why Tesla would want to bother changing the CAN messages on the trunk popper just to spite people who bought this kit... Has this actually happened on anyone who has installed the Model S retrofits? The threads I've seen don't seem to talk about that.