-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion
- Thread starter Baluchi
- Start date
At around 75%
Attachments
Just got back from my first real road trip with the 2022 LFP Model 3, and I'm happy to report the car did an amazing job. We left San Jose, CA in ...
For those interested in more details:
We left San Jose with a full charge and precondition, drove 148 miles to Auburn, arriving with 41% charge. I plugged in, walked across the parking lot to use the restroom, walked back, and the car was already over 70% SOC! I wasn't sitting there monitoring the charge rate, but I did see numbers around 150kw and well over 600 miles/hr charge added. I wound up waiting a bit longer for my wife - the car was at 95% by the time she returned and we unplugged. I didn't time the stop, but it was in the 20-30 min range (she really took her time)
I was also surprised at the speed when charging at high SOC. For example from 50-85% you don't get the charging speeds from the relevant section of a full 0-100% charging curve graph, instead you get a squashed version of the full charging curve, ie very high initial charging speeds then a gradual ramping down. I captured this from my recent trip. From 50-85% soc i got an average of 83kw, instead of an expected average of 60kw.
It means i can be more flexible when i decide to plug-in and not worry about charging when super empty in order to "catch" the peak charging speeds if i don't actually need too much additional charge to get where i'm going.
RichAZ/CapeCod
Member
Exactly where did the charge "fall-off a cliff?" I have a M3 SR on order (someday...) so I'm curious.
Rich
It fell off a cliff when i stopped charging and unplugged. Don't think Tesla can do much to fix that
Just a graphing quirk
RichAZ/CapeCod
Member
Well, if they really tried hard...It fell off a cliff when i stopped charging and unplugged. Don't think Tesla can do much to fix that
Just a graphing quirk
apologies if this has already been asked, please redirect as needed. new m3 rwd owner
I get LFP can charge to 100% regularly, and should be to keep the BMS calibrated, but its also my understanding that pretty any lithium battery will degrade faster if kept at a higher SOC. So from what Ive read it seems that while charging to 100% will degrade the battery faster its still far far less than a NCA battery and since the life cycle of an LFP battery is already really high any degradation from charging to 100% isnt really noticeable....supposedly.
is this true or is it worth it to charge to something like 85% (or input alternative %) most of the time then once every week or two top up to 100 to reset the BMS? how fast does the BMS actually become out of sync anyway?
just wondering if adopting some charging practice other than going to 100% each and every charge would be worth while or if its just a waste time and would not give any tangible gains.
thanks in advance!
I get LFP can charge to 100% regularly, and should be to keep the BMS calibrated, but its also my understanding that pretty any lithium battery will degrade faster if kept at a higher SOC. So from what Ive read it seems that while charging to 100% will degrade the battery faster its still far far less than a NCA battery and since the life cycle of an LFP battery is already really high any degradation from charging to 100% isnt really noticeable....supposedly.
is this true or is it worth it to charge to something like 85% (or input alternative %) most of the time then once every week or two top up to 100 to reset the BMS? how fast does the BMS actually become out of sync anyway?
just wondering if adopting some charging practice other than going to 100% each and every charge would be worth while or if its just a waste time and would not give any tangible gains.
thanks in advance!
Low effort: for daily driving, when needed, charge to 100% using scheduled charging to finish just before you drive off to minimize time parked at 100%.
Somewhat more effort: for daily driving, charge to a lower target so that the state-of-charge is bracketed around 50% most of the time (e.g. if you use 30% in a day, charge to 65% and drive it down to 35% during the day). If LFP battery, once per week, charge to 100% (using scheduled charging as above).
Long term parking: starting with state-of-charge under 50%, plug in with the charge target set to 50%. When returning, charge to 100% just before driving off.
Whether the "somewhat more effort" method is worth it with an LFP battery is not entirely obvious.
continuing from this for your bracketing....this can also be extended over many days correct? ie: no need for a daily charge. for example with easy math if you use 10% a day you could charge every 6th day from 20-80% vs plugging in each day.
Yes, but if you are concerned about battery lifetime, you have to consider how high/low state of charge you are willing to go to for daily use (further away from 100% or 0% should improve battery lifetime, although at some point it becomes not worth the effort).
The Puzzling Reason Why Tesla Misleadingly Recommends Charging the LFP Batteries to 100%
When Tesla started deliveries of the Model 3 RWD with lithium ferrophosphate (LFP) batteries, it made a strange recommendation on its website and in the ...
www.autoevolution.com
Modern LFP is more or less immune to large cycles. They can do thousends of 100-0% cycles so the big cycle is not an issue.
Also, the “stay away from 0% SOC” is a myth. For the calendar aging part, the lower the SOC, the better. So theres absolutely no reason to stay away from low SOC.
Just a heads up: That link contains a lot of non correct information.The Puzzling Reason Why Tesla Misleadingly Recommends Charging the LFP Batteries to 100%
When Tesla started deliveries of the Model 3 RWD with lithium ferrophosphate (LFP) batteries, it made a strange recommendation on its website and in the ...
The part about the reason that Tesla recommends charging to 100% once a week is true.
Most of the other parts contains errors.
This isnt really true. The cycle life shortens the larger the cycle is and the higher up the cycle is. But it is a progressive reduction in cycle life with increased SOC so no specific SOC that is bad. If they refer to calendar aging its not true either, as the calandar aging is not changing much between about 65 - 100% for normal temperatures.
Last part about discharged to zero, as long as we do not overdischarge the battery (Cell voltage below the low limit) the battery is fine, and it actually like it best at 0% SOC but still not discharged below 2.5V/cell
This picture shows research results from calendar aging with NCA, NMC and LFP.
So close to zero or zero is actually best
More or less all NCA and NMC have 4.2 as max voltage( = 100% SOC) and 2.5V as end of discharge( = SOC 0%)
Wrong. The lower the SOC, down to 2.5V/cell, the happier the battery.
Both for cycles and calendar aging.
I have not seen a research report that support the cited statement. There is a few with ”faulty setups”, like testing three different SOC’s like 100%, 70% and 50% and then drawing the conclusion that 50% is the best SOC level of all. But as no test was made below 50% the researchers do not know, and the conclusion if done like that, is wrong even if the actual test results is valid. For source about my statement that it is wrong, se above picture from a research report(that picture is representative for many research reports).
This isn’t really not true. Its about ok to say this. But its the sentence following the part I cited one step above.
Low SOC is bad, high SOC is bad and below 3.6V is also bad?
—> Batteries is bad ?
This is not exactly not correct, but it will not help the reader that is not an battery expert to understand. The reader will not get the important point. That is:
LFP is much much less sensitive to large or full cycles. They can handle thousands of full cycles which in number of miles/km driven before they are used up is much more than the car can do.
This is the reason for Tesla selecting LFP for short range versions because they more often need to use a larger cycle, so its a good choise for this.( also, they are heavier per kWh and the use up much more såace so they do not fit into a LR with the space available).
Noted.
Since getting the car in February, I've been charging to 100% and leaving at 100% overnight. I shouldn't be doing this, right ? Just asking.
Nice answers. Need to break down this thread into several sub threads. Too much stuff gets lost.
Mods need to create a separate sub-forum for LFP discussion. To much info out there right now.
I would not leave it at 100% overnight.
Caveat that Tesla wouldnt tell people to do anything thats really bad for the battery.
Follow teslas advice, is my advice.
I would charge full once a week but I would set the charging schedule to have the charging ready not too long before the next drive.
Similar threads
