Model 3 vs. Prius Touring 4

[ummgood]

And they're driving their Bolt in the same area and it beat its EPA rating in February.

I know exactly why. If you put the bolt next to the Model 3 and look at the Model 3 your mind says "hey let's take that up the curvy coast road for some fun!" then you look over at the Bolt and your mind says "Oh I better run to the store I forgot to buy some kitty litter."

 

[seattlite2004]

I know exactly why. If you put the bolt next to the Model 3 and look at the Model 3 your mind says "hey let's take that up the curvy coast road for some fun!" then you look over at the Bolt and your mind says "Oh I better run to the store I forgot to buy some kitty litter."

True one pedal driving, short profile, instant torque, makes curvy roads pretty fun in the Bolt....one would be surprised.

 

[ummgood]

True one pedal driving, short profile, instant torque, makes curvy roads pretty fun in the Bolt....one would be surprised.

Yeah you are probably right but I have no desire to even get in the thing. Same thing when I am given a Ford Focus as a rental. No way would I chose it for spirited driving if it was sitting next to another sportier car. Once you get in and drive it it isn't bad and is kinda fun to toss around but your intention isn't the same.

I know on the Motortrend test fleets sportier cars tend to not get their EPA numbers because the people borrow them and drive them aggressively because that is their intention when they check them out. When they check out a Bolt or a Leaf it is because they have to run some errands.

If at Edmunds you have a Bolt and a Model 3 sitting next to each other and you are allowed to check out each car you might check out the 3 for a weekend trip to the wine country while the Bolt inspires you to use it for your weekly commute. (If you don't think of the autopilot thing). I know if I worked at an auto review site that would be how I was thinking if I had many cars at my disposal. I would choose the car based on what my intentions for using the car was. I need a trip to Lowes I am going to take that F150 there. I need kitty litter there's the Bolt. My wife and I are going on a date weekend to a lodge in the mountains and there will be some spirited driving I'll take that Cayman. So I completely understand why their test vehicle might not be getting EPA while the Bolt is. If they only allowed all their cars to be used in the same exact situations then you might see similar results. Maybe they do and I am just off base too.

 

[insaneoctane]

Break even is state specific, even locale specific. YMMV, literally. My case works well:

• Gasoline $4/gal
• Electricity ~$0.07/kWh
• 20K miles / year

My electricity is low because my net metering solar results in energy credit (~$500) at the end of my true up period that will give me about half of my energy consumption for free. The other half I pay $0.13/ kWh, so I figured ~$0.07/kWh for my use case. Everyone's numbers are different. I know Canada has great numbers for ROI too... If your numbers are not great, then you must justify other ways

 

[ummgood]

My situation is different. I plan on charging my M3 most of the time at work. They have ChargePointe chargers that are hooked into the City Of Austin EV charging system which costs $25/6 months. So basically $50/year for all my commute/around town needs. The only additional costs will be if I need to charge because of excess driving on weekends or road trips. This only works for me because there are chargers installed at my employer on this plan that are at the top of our garage, which you need to be an employee to access. If I was using the other chargers on the network that are around town I wouldn't do it because it would be a pain to do that regularly. My current car is costing me about $40/week in fuel so the savings are pretty significant. In the future I don't expect this charging plan to last but I'll milk it while I can.

 

[nvx1977]

In their 2nd monthly report they didn't report the in-car displayed energy consumption, but the "lifetime" average consumption rose to 309 Wh/mi. 14% over EPA ratings.

This is the part that seems wrong to me. I've had my Model S (rated for 308 Wh/mi) since October in New England, so it's pretty much been only cold weather driving. When it's 50F degrees out (as warm as it gets between Oct and Apr), the car does fantastically for me - around 280 Wh/mi. Model 3 ought to be much better than that.

 

[jsmay311]

This is the part that seems wrong to me. I've had my Model S (rated for 308 Wh/mi) since October in New England, so it's pretty much been only cold weather driving. When it's 50F degrees out (as warm as it gets between Oct and Apr), the car does fantastically for me - around 280 Wh/mi. Model 3 ought to be much better than that.

You're conflating the battery-to-wheels efficiency displayed on the car's screen with the wall-to-wheels efficiency (including charging losses) which is what the EPA ratings and Edmund's measurements are.

 

[dhanson865]

Break even is state specific, even locale specific. YMMV, literally. My case works well:

• Gasoline $4/gal
• Electricity ~$0.07/kWh
• 20K miles / year

My electricity is low because my net metering solar results in energy credit (~$500) at the end of my true up period that will give me about half of my energy consumption for free. The other half I pay $0.13/ kWh, so I figured ~$0.07/kWh for my use case. Everyone's numbers are different. I know Canada has great numbers for ROI too... If your numbers are not great, then you must justify other ways

To do that math right you have to figure out cost for your Solar PV installation (panels, inverters, and such) divided by the number of years they'll last (30 might be a fair number, they'll last longer than 30 but they'll also degrade and produce less over time) divided by your annual kWh produced. That PV power isn't free, it's just cheaper than the grid.

So if your PV comes out to 7 cents per kWh and your grid is 14 cents per and you are apparently generating 3/4 of your electricity with PV you'd come back to something like 9 cents per kWh after averaging the PV and the Grid together.

The PV is still cheaper than gas by far, just not sure if I'm good with math that treats it like it's free.

 

[insaneoctane]

To do that math right you have to figure out cost for your Solar PV installation (panels, inverters, and such) divided by the number of years they'll last (30 might be a fair number, they'll last longer than 30 but they'll also degrade and produce less over time) divided by your annual kWh produced. That PV power isn't free, it's just cheaper than the grid.

So if your PV comes out to 7 cents per kWh and your grid is 14 cents per and you are apparently generating 3/4 of your electricity with PV you'd come back to something like 9 cents per kWh after averaging the PV and the Grid together.

The PV is still cheaper than gas by far, just not sure if I'm good with math that treats it like it's free.

Well, in my case, my solar array was sized based off the tiered pricing structure that I was on when spec'd/installed. A few months into my solar ownership, I reviewed the impact of switching to a TOU plan and found that, for my household, TOU combined with solar would be quite lucrative. We switched and, while we are still a net consumer of electricity, we have had an average of around $500 of credit at the end of each year. You could argue that the PV system was not properly sized if you want. Either way I see turning that silly pennies-on-the-dollar check into half of my energy usage as "free" to me since it was installed well before I even put my deposit down. YMMV

 

[gregincal]

You're conflating the battery-to-wheels efficiency displayed on the car's screen with the wall-to-wheels efficiency (including charging losses) which is what the EPA ratings and Edmund's measurements are.

The other day (which was pretty typical) it took me 16.8 kWh of energy to recharge my car after it says it has used 14.8 kWh on my commute (66.7 miles at 222 wh/mile). That's about 88% charging efficiency. However, the weather has just turned warmer, and even with the mild California weather my average for the last two months is 252 wh/mile doing the same commute. I expect my average to come down a lot over the coming months.

The other thing to remember with wall energy used is that vampire losses aren't counted in the displayed wh/mile, so if you are doing something that keeps your car awake a lot when off you will seem to get worse charging efficiency.

(On a side note, it used to take me more like 22-23 Kwh to recharge my S after a commute in warm weather.)

 

[cschock]

I'm not sure the original question is even one that needs answering. It's like saying, to me, should I buy a Prius or a BMW 3 series. They are roughly the same size I suppose, but are aimed at two TOTALLY different markets. Now, I do understand that from a fuel economy standpoint, the Model 3 is more comparable to a Prius than a 3 Series, but that's sort of the only place they are comparable. Which is more a statement about how much the Model 3 is better than a 3 series (at least in that respect) than it is anything else. I think we all know that Tesla is aiming the Model 3 at the 3 Series market, not the Prius market.

In any case, in "cost of ownership", I don't think that you're ever really going to "win" with any premium sports sedan vs. an economy car in pure economics terms. If that is your criteria, then you should probably keep the Prius.

 

[jmp470]

Thank you all for the replies. I do want the M3, however, I don't want to put a deposit down on one. I would rather wait for them to come on the lot. I've driven the S and the X and they are very nice cars, but, not exactly what I want. The M3 should be the perfect size for me, as the Prius does exactly what I need it to.

 

[T34ME]

Hello all,
I tried the search function, but, nothing has turned up. I'm curious what the charging requirements are for the Model 3. I currently drive a Prius Touring 4 and I'm curious about the operating costs. For me, I can go 450 miles for about 8.5 gallons of gas. Here in Texas we are paying around $2.2, so $18.7. I have a 15.39 kWp solar system on the house, so I can defer some of the charging costs, however, I'm still curious how much energy is required to go 450 miles.

As far as electrical energy usage, it will cost me nothing because I have Solar City on my roof and I will recharge my model 3 every night at home. I put PV on my roof to power my home 3 years ago and generate 100% of my needs and even generate excess power at this time. So there is no amortization of PV installation costs to charge my model 3 since I installed it for other purposes. (BTW my breakeven installation cost for home use will occur in about another 3 years) So, ICE or hybrid makes no financial sense to me, TCO or not.