Model S Cabrio

[purplewalt]

Agreed !! and 4 door would be great though not sure if possible ?!?!? But I want Gen 3 size not Model S size.

I think maybe we take a step back for a moment and consider that the better Option might be to wait for the Gen III with the retractable-roof being integrated from the get-go as the car is being designed.

There are a lot of dynamics with a car body and roof to achieve substantial rigidity, and I believe it would be significantly more complicated to implement a retractable roof with a 4-door automobile.
It must be stable and also weather-tight under ALL conditions, and also operate flawlessly.
Even larger convertible roofs are still manufactured with soft fabric material (6 Series BMW, E Series MB, Saab was, Audi A5...)
Smaller-area retractable (convertible) roofs are very complicated pieces of machinary: the VW Eos has the most complicated with 470 parts.

And then the task becomes: who or what entity manufactures, installs and coordinates this piece of machinary, and stocks all the parts?
Would Tesla want to add this to their in-house stamping and manufacturing task list?
One last Item for consideration: convertibles typically already weigh more than couple or sedans due to the additional structure required.
Now add to that the complexity of 4-doors in lieu of just 2, and I think the brain-power resources could be better utilized addressing and solving more critical issues.

 

[fjavifp]

Hi purplewalt, hi all,

We all understand that a 4-door hard-top convertible is quite a challenge for anyone, full of additional complications to those of coupes, 2-door convertibles, and EVs... I myself have investigated the concept for some time, ever since I bought my little Peugeot 307 CC back in 2003 - It is nice to dream is it not?...

That's all we are doing here - it is obviously (needles to say) TESLA's decision as to whether they'll take the challenge or not, and if so when. We just throw our ideas to the digital wind, exchanging more or less valid considerations of people with common interests/hobbies, or said dreams.

Kind regards,
Javier

 

[ElSupreme]

Even if you implement suicide rear doors you still have the problem of window seals. The space between the front and rear windows requires a seal(s). So you would have to add in a B pillar. This could be part of the retracting bits, but would add significantly to the complexity, and cost of such a system. Not to mention adding to the space required for a hard top.

 

[Kevin Harney]

Even if you implement suicide rear doors you still have the problem of window seals. The space between the front and rear windows requires a seal(s). So you would have to add in a B pillar. This could be part of the retracting bits, but would add significantly to the complexity, and cost of such a system. Not to mention adding to the space required for a hard top.

Why does the fact that it requires a seal between the front and rear windows lead to requiring a B pillar ?

 

[fjavifp]

Even if you implement suicide rear doors you still have the problem of window seals. The space between the front and rear windows requires a seal(s). So you would have to add in a B pillar. This could be part of the retracting bits, but would add significantly to the complexity, and cost of such a system. Not to mention adding to the space required for a hard top.

Why does the fact that it requires a seal between the front and rear windows lead to requiring a B pillar ?

Hi ElSupreme, Kevin, hi all,
I understand this is an issue, but it is not exclusive to this concept is it?
I mean, every other hard top convertible (and soft top for that matter) must have faced the same challenge, and they have obviously come up with valid solutions... I think by building the seal onto the windows... and once the roof is up (which is when the seal really matters), then you also get the seal effect from the top frame...

Me I am more and more inclined towards an eventual Model S hard-top 5-door convertible - Yes, leaving the hatch back door!!
I think it is just the right height over the rear head rests, and could mean shortened B-pillar just high enough for the rear doors to hinge on without (probably) much compromise to structural integrity, and without having to go to suicide doors. I thinks this image shows very nicely dimensions and hinge points:

The top could then fold into the top half of the trunk, leaving all the bottom half free for storage with a Skoda Superb like opening system.

Would probably need a window or screen at the rear just behind rear seats to raise when top down to prevent air flow getting trapped in the trunk and consequent drag...

Rear facing child seats option could still be valid for roof up only...

And I see a problem with the air flow to the rear seats with the top down... would probably need extensive simulation and wind tunnel testing to make it a comfortable ride, other than that, I can really see it ...

You?
Regards,
Javier

 

[Kevin Harney]

Javier, That was my point with the windows exactly. Been done many times. So why need a B pillar on this car and no other ?

Can't see your attachments

Kevin

 

[ElSupreme]

Why does the fact that it requires a seal between the front and rear windows lead to requiring a B pillar ?

Well you need something to attach the seal too. If you attach it to the glass, you end up having to open the front door to open the back door. This is what you have to do with the 3rd doors on a lot of cars.

On this picture you can see a pillarless design, but this requires you to open the front before the rear. This is a concept vehicle, never to see real use. I don't think the requirement of front door open first would be acceptable to many, and I am not sure about the weathertightness of this. I am sure it can be made weathertight but I am not sure if it is easy or practical for a real world application.

On this other Lincoln (actual 4 door convertible) you can see the windows themselves were framed. I don't think this is the asthetic that Tesla would go with. And I am doubtful about their practicality in sealing the doors. There is also the option of adding a pop-up, or pop-out B pillar sealing mechanism.

 

[Kevin Harney]

The back windows on my 3 Series are similar to the Lincoln but they are frameless. So I guess my question boils down to what makes a Coupe and a 4 door different here ? Just put a frameless window in the back door to meet the frameless window in the front door ?!?!?!?!?!?

Picture

 

[fjavifp]

Javier, That was my point with the windows exactly. Been done many times. So why need a B pillar on this car and no other ?

Can't see your attachments

Kevin

Hi Kevin,
I got you.
Corrected the attachments as well - thanks.
I agree with you about frameless windows like in your 3 series, my crappy Peugeot, and all others.
As for the doors, as said previously, I don't see the need to go for suicide type - they look fancy and would offer improved access, but a simpler solution would be to leave shortened B-pillars waist line high, the rear door hinging on it (and not at the C), and frameless windows... or am I missing something ElSupreme?

Regards

 

[Kevin Harney]

I like the Skoda trunk. Agree with the suicide part now that I get the B pillar is shortened (which I had missed somehow) But here is a thought along the coolness factor. What about Falcon Wing doors or rear hatch where the glass goes down into the door or hatch ?!?!?!?!?

 

[fjavifp]

I like the Skoda trunk. Agree with the suicide part now that I get the B pillar is shortened (which I had missed somehow) But here is a thought along the coolness factor. What about Falcon Wing doors or rear hatch where the glass goes down into the door or hatch ?!?!?!?!?

Yeah, the Skoda is quite clever... and the Falcon Wing doors are really cool but I'm not sure I understand how they would work in a convertible... it'd be more like T-Top no?...

 

[Kevin Harney]

I was kinda thinking in reverse. Glass roof folds down like a wing to the window portion and then goes down like a window into the door.

 

[fjavifp]

Sorry man, I still don't get it... but sounds cool

 

[brianman]

Sorry man, I still don't get it... but sounds cool

Crude representation, but hopefully it helps...

I think he's saying that (1) A slides over B, (2) A+B slides over C, and (3) A+B+C slides into the footwell area.