Hopefully tesla’s stock tanks again so they sell the ccbs cheap
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Model S Plaid Track Package Waiting Room
- Thread starter lowtek
- Start date
Awiner
Member
That would then translate to:
Front wheel weighs 29.5 lbs (tire is 30 lbs.)
Rear wheel weighs 33.5 lbs (tire is 29 lbs.)
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muzhik
Member
Does the car feel more nimble while not in track mode? I’ve long been on the fence about getting a Plaid S and getting rid of my 3P with coilovers but I didn’t love the turn in and general handling feel of the S. If they improved this with software even not in track mode that would be compelling.
The weight is surprisingly high for the wheels given their smaller diameter.
Here are my 21" Signature SV303s @ 62.2 pounds. This is a 3 piece wheel so not near as light as their 1 piece like the SV104 or SV501. Glad I didn't go with the track pack wheels now that I saw the weight of them.
Here are my 21" Signature SV303s @ 62.2 pounds. This is a 3 piece wheel so not near as light as their 1 piece like the SV104 or SV501. Glad I didn't go with the track pack wheels now that I saw the weight of them.
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My Track package install was just pushed for a third time (four total installs scheduled) from July 24 to August 21. This is the longest push and I am beginning to wonder why Tesla allowed me to purchase the track package but doesn’t seem to be able to fulfill the order. The third reschedule is a minor inconvenience and I will sit tight, but I must admit to feeling slightly annoyed.
Joe
Joe
I'll take a shot at this. The entire CCB kit shaves a lot of unsprung weight off the car. I had my SV303s on the car and Tesla wouldn't install the track pack brakes with them on. So I had to source a set of 21" Arachnids to get the car done. Putting on the SV303s already made the car feel more nimble and responsive. Getting the car back with the heavy Arachnids definitely felt significantly better than how it felt with the 303s.
I'll use my M3 LR w/boost and MPP adjustable coil overs for a reference point. It isn't quite there yet, but it has definitely closed the gap a lot. Turn in lags a bit compared to my 3. I think the biggest downside is the weight and size of the Plaid. It has definitely gone from more of a hyper GT car toward a sports car. Overall handling definitely feels better. Braking is far better and easily surpasses the 3. I definitely notice a bigger difference in track mode than before. I am not sure what all tweaks were made there but it definitely feels more nimble. I may run that whenever I am going to push the car more anyway. The torque vectoring really makes the car come alive. I wish that was enabled all the time.
To get even closer to the dynamics of my 3, I have a very light set of 20" SV501s on order. That will be at least a 10-pound (likely more) savings of unsprung weight per corner over the 21" Arachnids.
Awiner
Member
I knew the wheels wouldn’t be ultra light and other aftermarket wheels would be a better choice. The Goodyear Supercar 3r tires the track pack wheels come with are good but they have a 20-25 heat cycle limit before they become hard and slippery rewound replacement. Anyone using them on the street would need to invest another 2k in proper street tires. That made the choice of forgoing the track pack wheels an easy choice.
Compare the weight to say SV104 20” wheels in the same size:
F: 20x10 21.5lb
R: 20x11 22.12lb
Plus all zero G wheels across the telsa brand look the same, just different size widths and offsets. There isn’t really any exclusivity.
If your install is getting pushed at this point it’s because the wheels, tires or caps aren’t readily available.
Availability on the actual CCB kit is good however and shouldn’t yield any setbacks on install of that alone.
Compare the weight to say SV104 20” wheels in the same size:
F: 20x10 21.5lb
R: 20x11 22.12lb
Plus all zero G wheels across the telsa brand look the same, just different size widths and offsets. There isn’t really any exclusivity.
If your install is getting pushed at this point it’s because the wheels, tires or caps aren’t readily available.
Availability on the actual CCB kit is good however and shouldn’t yield any setbacks on install of that alone.
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Yblue
Member
My aftermarket wheel set up 20x10 and 20x11.5 is still lighter than the OE setup. But truth be told, the design on the O.E leaves a lot of areas where weight could be reduced along with their consideration of possible load and impact tolerances. Aftermarket wheels in general lack this consideration and the warranty to back it up.
It is important to look at weight, stiffness and strength when it comes to wheels. The MSP is no 3100lbs 911 GT3 RS that can run 18lbs BBS mags.
Load rating is critical to safety and I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to Tesla engineers that they chose the forged set backed by insight from data and extensive trials.
Additionally, not all forged wheels are created equal. The budget friendly vendors like Signature very likely source their raw materials from China whereas the higher end BBS and HRE forgings come from Japan/Germany/USA. Each supplier has their own closely guarded, proprietary mixtures of copper, boron and nickel to increase strength in the aluminum which also increases cost.
It is all about engineered concessions tied to a pricing target. Once you wade into the aftermarket, it’s internet Wild Wild West.
I cannot stand the look of the Track Pack wheels so a non-starter for me. I am enjoying the initial ccb obs from the vanguard!
Load rating is critical to safety and I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to Tesla engineers that they chose the forged set backed by insight from data and extensive trials.
Additionally, not all forged wheels are created equal. The budget friendly vendors like Signature very likely source their raw materials from China whereas the higher end BBS and HRE forgings come from Japan/Germany/USA. Each supplier has their own closely guarded, proprietary mixtures of copper, boron and nickel to increase strength in the aluminum which also increases cost.
It is all about engineered concessions tied to a pricing target. Once you wade into the aftermarket, it’s internet Wild Wild West.
I cannot stand the look of the Track Pack wheels so a non-starter for me. I am enjoying the initial ccb obs from the vanguard!
Yblue
Member
If you are talking about the aluminum billet forgings, compositions vary little but with high tonnage forgings the strength of the inherent material is typically sufficient regardless of country of origin... It more so boils down to how much each wheel manufacturer pares the weight off their wheels to balance weight, strength and load capacity. Unfortunately, oe manufacturers have way more liability than the typical aftermarket wheel company and have to added material for strength to fortify their products. Aftermarket wheels on the other hand use light weight as a marketing piece to sell more wheels... But this usually means if you bend one, you're out of luck and buy another.... Thus, when if comes to aftermarket, check load capacity, look at the wheel design to determine if it looks like its "engineered" at barely the limits, see where these wheels are being sold at are reputable or have good customer service to gauge if there are going to be any sufficient aftersales support other than for you to buy another wheel from them.
I think Signature has struck a good balance. Even MPP bought their wheels for their race Model 3. See the first post of page #901. They make a slightly heaver track version of their wheels if you are going for very severe duty use.
teslamotorsclub.com
As for repairing or replacing a wheel, for the most part, I'd rather just replace it anyway. By the time I take the kinks out of it, and refinish it, I am a long way toward a new wheel with respect to cost. To that point, Signature offers a significant discount to get a replacement wheel to the original purchaser of the wheels.
After paying several hundred dollars in the past just to get a minor scrape repaired on a wheel in the past, to drop about a grand and get a brand new wheel instead of major repairs to one, is a lot more appealing and less risk. That is one thing I like that Jamie has done @SignatureSales and could be a huge benefit to me someday.
Chillin with Chet crash-tested his Signatures at 170 mph and looks like they held up well. I have no relationship or affiliation with Signature other than being a happy customer.
Vendor - Official Signature Wheel Gallery | Model S Plaid & Performance.
Hey @SignatureSales what is the load rating of the wheels? I don’t think I quite saw what the max load rating is they’re tested/rated for Thanks for your comment. The wheels are tested to JWL VIA motorsport specs. We don't disclose specific load rating. Just know that each wheel is made...
teslamotorsclub.com
As for repairing or replacing a wheel, for the most part, I'd rather just replace it anyway. By the time I take the kinks out of it, and refinish it, I am a long way toward a new wheel with respect to cost. To that point, Signature offers a significant discount to get a replacement wheel to the original purchaser of the wheels.
After paying several hundred dollars in the past just to get a minor scrape repaired on a wheel in the past, to drop about a grand and get a brand new wheel instead of major repairs to one, is a lot more appealing and less risk. That is one thing I like that Jamie has done @SignatureSales and could be a huge benefit to me someday.
Chillin with Chet crash-tested his Signatures at 170 mph and looks like they held up well. I have no relationship or affiliation with Signature other than being a happy customer.
At day's end, it's a brand trust/feels thing. I don't know of any end consumer who will spend money out of their own pocket to commission an evidentiary based wheel strength and stiffness assessment. You like what you like and admittedly, I'm an unabashed wheel snob so tend to stick to the motorsport pedigreed companies with non-China/Taiwan sourced materials.
Now if Tesla sanctioned the track pack with BBS FI-Rs like Bugatti did the Chiron, it'd be a chin scratch Apple Pay moment for me. Else, I'll settle for the Arachnids aka no gum smacking from TSC 21s.
Now if Tesla sanctioned the track pack with BBS FI-Rs like Bugatti did the Chiron, it'd be a chin scratch Apple Pay moment for me. Else, I'll settle for the Arachnids aka no gum smacking from TSC 21s.
Yblue
Member
An interesting fact though is that Taiwan/chinese forgings have long been O.E for Mclaren , Bentley, Ferrari, and others.... Forged Wheels - SuperAlloy Industrial Co., Ltd. To the end consumer, its simply wheel snob marketing and how it sways you to open your wallet and part with more money... lol.
Yea, see BMW M. My SAI forged BMW wheel came out of balance brand new.
F fact: The legendary Porsche Carrera GT also has carbon parts... from China. Shock of the century.
My point isn't that every wheel from China/Taiwan aren't deserving of serious consideration. Generally speaking, I personally bias heavily toward spending my Benjamins on known brands. You also tend to get that money back on the resale transaction.
OEMs operate within the slimmest of margins. Every single cent they can shave off every nut and bolt (+wheel) can mean being a sales success or a total loss of billions of dollars. Money talks.
I'm guessing SAI supplies the Zero Gs? No idea.
Even HRE sells wheels that weren't made in the US under their label.
I prefer to avoid Chinese production as much as I can but in some area they've cornered the market it seems. I generally have had great luck with stuff made in Taiwan. I've had Taiwanese engines that were pretty much identical to a version originally made in Japan and also the Chinese version of the same motor. The Taiwanese motor lasted as long as my original Japanese motor, if not better, whereas the Chinese version barely made a year. There is a reason Taiwan is also the semi-conductor capital of the world. They can produce things to very tight tolerances, little waste at an affordable price.
There is always a point of diminishing returns. So far my experience has been that Signature wheels are on the few wheels that seem to have pretty good resale value other than something than HRE, BBS, etc. Then again I don't buy wheels to turn around and resell immediately but it is something I do factor into TCO.
Buy what fits your budget and your style. I almost never go with the low-cost producer but I can't believe in throwing my money away either. So much is based on perception as much as reality. Many companies sell an image and people buy into it. Same reason people buy a certain brand or model of car. They want their auto to be an outward extension of their persona. I never really cared. I've always been more of a "Farm Truck" kind of guy who loves slaying muscle cars with a sleeper.
With the track pack brakes, the car has really catapulted itself up the rankings of supercars based on its overall capabilities. It is no longer a one-trick pony.
I prefer to avoid Chinese production as much as I can but in some area they've cornered the market it seems. I generally have had great luck with stuff made in Taiwan. I've had Taiwanese engines that were pretty much identical to a version originally made in Japan and also the Chinese version of the same motor. The Taiwanese motor lasted as long as my original Japanese motor, if not better, whereas the Chinese version barely made a year. There is a reason Taiwan is also the semi-conductor capital of the world. They can produce things to very tight tolerances, little waste at an affordable price.
There is always a point of diminishing returns. So far my experience has been that Signature wheels are on the few wheels that seem to have pretty good resale value other than something than HRE, BBS, etc. Then again I don't buy wheels to turn around and resell immediately but it is something I do factor into TCO.
Buy what fits your budget and your style. I almost never go with the low-cost producer but I can't believe in throwing my money away either. So much is based on perception as much as reality. Many companies sell an image and people buy into it. Same reason people buy a certain brand or model of car. They want their auto to be an outward extension of their persona. I never really cared. I've always been more of a "Farm Truck" kind of guy who loves slaying muscle cars with a sleeper.
With the track pack brakes, the car has really catapulted itself up the rankings of supercars based on its overall capabilities. It is no longer a one-trick pony.
Last I checked, their flow formed budget wheels come from Enkei outta Japan. Their 6061 t6 supplier is Aluminum Precision outta SoCal.
Wouldn’t surprise me if pricing pressures rerouted the ship to the other island in East Asia for all things non-forged.
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