Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[Driver Dave]

NTSB will hold a board meeting about this incident in February it looks like.

MEDIA ADVISORY: Tesla Crash in California Subject of NTSB Meeting

WASHINGTON (Jan. 14, 2020) — The National Transportation Safety Board announced Tuesday its intention to hold a board meeting Feb. 25, 2020, 9:30 a.m. (EST), to determine the probable cause of the fatal crash of a Tesla in Mountain View, California

> "On March 23, 2018, a 2017 Tesla Model X..."

I'm not sure how they can actually analyze anything of value because the tech has changed so much since then.

> "The vehicle was being operated with advanced driver assistance features"

The key word is "operated"

No matter what: cruise control, "advanced driver assistance", knee on wheel...

The driver is still driving.

 

[Az_Rael]

I hope the "pre-compressed crash cushion" is part of their discussion. The accident may not have been fatal if that device had been in proper condition at the time of the crash.

That was the real tragedy I thought. Especially since that barrier hadn't been fixed for so long. It's one thing if someone plowed into it the day before, but I recall it hadn't been repaired for months.

 

[Silicon Desert]

But many humans have not safely navigated it. Which is why the crash attenuator was already collapsed. And that particular location has been one of the most frequently hit in California. Which leads a lot of people to think that maybe there is something wrong with the road layout/markings in that location.

AMEN ! and I just went to church. Great point.

 

[Silicon Desert]

If autopilot miles are really safer than non-autopilot miles, then more frequent nagging means I just don't use it, and I'm sure the same will goes for other people. Self-defeating safety.

yes, that is me. I won't use it if it nags more.
HOWEVER, you reminded me of something where I thought more nagging was actually humorous. My sister has one of those gps plug-in apps of a military drill sergeant (used to be famous on TV commercials). When in her car on a long trip, I heard the guidance instructions say things like "Hey, you stupid twit, you missed the exit." And later, "Hey scum bag, you are going over the speed limit. Can't you read the signs?"

Ok, back on subject..... this is a sad result during an accident. It will be interesting to see the outcome. Wife thinks there will be "shared fault". I don't know.

 

[immolated]

My AP just veered me straight towards a gore barrier last week. My interpretation was that the single lane splitting into two was interpreted as just one lane getting wider, and my car attempted to center itself between the left line in the left lane and the right line in the right lane. Which leaves my car directly where the gore barrier is.

Instead of trying to center itself between two lines, the logic needs to keep itself hugged to one dashed line. This would also fix lunging towards exits on the left that still happens to me every day on the way to work.

 

[VikH]

Especially since that barrier hadn't been fixed for so long. It's one thing if someone plowed into it the day before, but I recall it hadn't been repaired for months.

It was previously damaged 11 days before. Still too long, but not months.

My AP just veered me straight towards a gore barrier last week. My interpretation was that the single lane splitting into two was interpreted as just one lane getting wider, and my car attempted to center itself between the left line in the left lane and the right line in the right lane. Which leaves my car directly where the gore barrier is.

Instead of trying to center itself between two lines, the logic needs to keep itself hugged to one dashed line. This would also fix lunging towards exits on the left that still happens to me every day on the way to work.

AP2+ does not lunge towards exits (generally).

 

[linux-works]

Instead of trying to center itself between two lines, the logic needs to keep itself hugged to one dashed line. This would also fix lunging towards exits on the left that still happens to me every day on the way to work.

yes! its the one thing that I have to constantly correct for, on my drive home. a narrow lane becomes 'wider' when a right hand access merges to the highway. my car wants to center and so it moves to the right - and scares anyone who wants to merge in! any time the lanes swoop in and out in width, the car wants to center - and that logic is often VERY wrong!

not sure if hugging the left line (in the US) is right, but for me, I think that would fix things.

 

[Az_Rael]

It was previously damaged 11 days before. Still too long, but not months.

Ah, thanks for that. I hadn't remembered the prior damage was that soon before. I think I was conflating the prior reports of fix times that the NTSB reported on where Caltrans had taken much longer to fix that same barrier.

 

[Cosmacelf]

My AP just veered me straight towards a gore barrier last week. My interpretation was that the single lane splitting into two was interpreted as just one lane getting wider, and my car attempted to center itself between the left line in the left lane and the right line in the right lane. Which leaves my car directly where the gore barrier is.

Instead of trying to center itself between two lines, the logic needs to keep itself hugged to one dashed line. This would also fix lunging towards exits on the left that still happens to me every day on the way to work.

Did the gore area have painted chevrons, or was it blank?

 

[Silicon Desert]

Ah, thanks for that. I hadn't remembered the prior damage was that soon before. I think I was conflating the prior reports of fix times that the NTSB reported on where Caltrans had taken much longer to fix that same barrier.

yea, I was thinking the same thing and now that he mentions it, I recall the barrier being damaged a couple weeks before the BIG Tesla accident. It was damaged 3 or more times as I recall, and slow to fix. I drove in that area several times when I lived close by and it is even confusing to a human, let alone a computer on wheels. I always purposely stayed closer to the right lane even if it was slower because it made me nervous. Maybe I am just a worrisome chicken driver, but hey, I have driven almost 900,000 miles and never created an accident, so I'll stick to that method

 

[dhanson865]

It is a fairly small object to see.
View attachment 307858


It is supposed to have a warning sign on the front, but sometimes I have seen it left with no warning sign (due to previous crash) so it can be really hard to see sometimes.
View attachment 307857

Did the gore area have painted chevrons, or was it blank?

I believe this picture posted by TEG shows what it looked like just prior to the crash.

 

[TEG]

Did the gore area have painted chevrons, or was it blank?

It was "blank" at the time of the crash. They have since painted chevrons there now.

Example "pre-crash":

Example "post-crash":

 

[Silicon Desert]

It was "blank" at the time of the crash. They have since painted chevrons there now.

yes, and I don't remember ever seeing any pavement markings up until the big accident. Maybe I'm wrong. The first time I ever went down that way long ago was when they made the left lane overpass, I was really confused and could have also hit that barrier (in an Acura). I used to go down that way about twice a week.Fortunately I was not going that fast. Thus I understand why there were so many accidents. If I recall correctly, that barrier was hit 6 times over a couple years by all kinds of cars before the Tesla hit it. Most were not serious, but a couple were. Maybe someone else has newer information. I haven't lived there for 3 years, but still get there about once every few months.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Guys, I was replying, and asking about the gore area, to immolated’s post where he was talking about a separate event that occurred to him. So I was wonder if immolated’s gore area had chevrons.

 

[CrayZ1]

Folks who assume CalTrans does their recruiting from CalTech, haven't driven on the freeways much. They aren't exactly rocket surgeons designing our freeways. Notice the number of times an interchange has multiple reworks. Keep guessing until they get it right?

 

[mattack4000]

I have a solution, look at the road

 

[TEG]

Guys, I was replying, and asking about the gore area, to immolated’s post where he was talking about a separate event that occurred to him. So I was wonder if immolated’s gore area had chevrons.

OK, but still something interesting to consider about the gore area where the original accident of this topic took place.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

It was previously damaged 11 days before. Still too long, but not months.


AP2+ does not lunge towards exits (generally).

Perhaps the case, but CalTrans was already on-notice for their Failure to Repair another compression cushion/crash attenuator from years prior, a crash that involved a long-distance bus that was impaled in a similar crash.

Seemingly gross negligence by CalTrans, again.

How many multi-million dollar judgments (paid by taxpayers) will it take before someone wakes them up?

****************************************

Mildly related, but this wasn't the crash in question where the attenuator was left un-repaired:

NTSB Releases San Jose Bus Crash Report

 

[TEG]

There were other fatal crashes at the point where the Model X got "impaled".

But data on the crash cushion being pre-compressed or "reset" isn't so readily available.
Not exactly something they go out of their way to tell everyone.
Without "street-view" we might not have been able to see the pre-history leading up to these "events."

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Yes, concur.

In reality, a compressed or previously used crash cushion is arguably MORE dangerous as it "spears" the vehicle, concentrating the impact on a small portion.

Which then basically destroys the vehicle instead of slowing it over a measured distance.

Seems like gross incompetence by CalTrans, but that's the thing with government: they've got a monopoly and there's no real penalty for such behavior . . . .