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MS Lease Turn In Fees

sdorn

Director of Awesome
Supporting Member
Oct 9, 2016
1,041
1,057
Georgia
I leased a 2016 MSP100DL, but the lease was through US Bank. I had to do a lease termination inspection and they cleared it with no issues noted even though I had the hood repainted because of a long scratch from a small piece of metal that flew up on the interstate. After the inspection I turned it into the local Tesla delivery center. There were no surprise charges.

I currently have a M3P that is leased, and when my new MS Plaid is ready for me to pick up I'm planning on selling the M3P to Carvana or similar. I offered to trade it in to Tesla, but they only offered $45k for it. Carvana offered $54k and I haven't checked others yet. I can't buy it myself and sell it third party because it is a Tesla lease with no buyout option.
 
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kizamybute'

Member
Aug 24, 2019
204
481
Los Angeles, CA
Wow, your residual was $60k!? My 2019 Model S lease was set to expire in March 2022. The residual was $46k, so we bought it early at $53k since the market value is $65k and up.
The Model S may be 3 years old, but I’d disagree that it’s outdated.
You should have had to complete an end of lease inspection no matter what. Unless you were trading, which it doesn’t sound like you were.
It doesn’t matter what brand you lease, returning them is a crap shoot. I returned an Audi a few months ago and they tried to charge me $900 for a new front grill even though there was nothing wrong with it. That was my 6th Audi, so brand loyalty means nothing these days.
Pre-inspections are highly recommended and encouraged, but are NOT required. This however, is the the problem that arises when you do not let them inspect the car prior to turning it in. They do their own inspection once the car has been turned in, make their own judgment and send you a bill. If you do it before hand, you can dispute it before the car is actually turned in, or resolve any of the issues the inspection unveils.

But, more than one person has said you absolutely have to do the pre-inspection prior to the lease end. That is simply not true. It is not an absolute requirement.
 

kizamybute'

Member
Aug 24, 2019
204
481
Los Angeles, CA
Because I don't want to pay for a set of Tesla OEM tires at the end, whenever I lease my cars, I always buy relatively cheap custom wheels and tires for the car, generally pay less than $1,500 for wheels and tires. The original wheels and tires get put in the garage and sit there until I wear out the tires on the custom wheels and tires, which usually comes just a few months prior to my lease end. I use the stock wheels / tires for the last few months, but they generally have less than 8,000 miles on them when I turn it in, so I never have to pay the astronomical price for OEM tires. Also, for the same reason, I always go with the 19" wheels and save the $4,500 up front. Get my custom wheels and tires for $1,500 and that's all I spend, period. Essentially, I'm just buying cheap tires at the front end instead of at the end of the lease. $1,500 versus $4,500 plus a $1,600 set of tires at the end. Over $6,000 to get the 21" wheel option or $1,500 for custom unique wheels. Save about $3,500 every lease that way.
 
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Kairide

Member
Jul 13, 2021
189
235
CA
Pre-inspections are highly recommended and encouraged, but are NOT required. This however, is the the problem that arises when you do not let them inspect the car prior to turning it in. They do their own inspection once the car has been turned in, make their own judgment and send you a bill. If you do it before hand, you can dispute it before the car is actually turned in, or resolve any of the issues the inspection unveils.

But, more than one person has said you absolutely have to do the pre-inspection prior to the lease end. That is simply not true. It is not an absolute requirement.
You are correct on this. I think the lease end inspection, at least with Audi, was such a no brainer I just mentally connected it as being required. I mean it's free, they come to you, and could prevent you from paying thousands in unnecessary fees/penalties, not sure why anyone would not do it. I assimilate it to getting a home inspection done prior to buying a house. Not technically required, but anyone with common sense should do it.
 
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Kairide

Member
Jul 13, 2021
189
235
CA
Anyone know if Tesla has a formal pre-inspection option (typically using 3rd party) for leases under Tesla Finance? That would greatly reduce risk of surprises after the fact.
I don't think they do. Last month when I was pondering an early lease return on my Model S, I was instructed to just take pictures of the car and email them to Tesla. I've leased lots of Audis in the past and there was always a lease end inspection scheduled 30+ days from lease end paid by Audi. I think tesla is just too cheap to pay a 3rd party to inspect the car.
 

SoCal Buzz

Early Adopter
Supporting Member
Oct 9, 2018
518
434
Orange County, CA, USA
That creates a bit of a challenge, given process and communication issues at the Service Centers. I just returned a Land Rover and they used AutoVin for pre-inspection, which led to a seamless, accurate assessment. And then when I returned to a dealer, they recommended I record a video walk-around to save just in case damage occurred in transport from the dealer (bank owns the car, not the mfg. in this case). I just extended my 2018 Tesla lease for 6 months in hopes I can actually get a new Tesla after the dust settles (or alternative EV next year).
 

MrG_NY

Member
May 20, 2019
149
115
NY
I leased a 2016 MSP100DL, but the lease was through US Bank. I had to do a lease termination inspection and they cleared it with no issues noted even though I had the hood repainted because of a long scratch from a small piece of metal that flew up on the interstate. After the inspection I turned it into the local Tesla delivery center. There were no surprise charges.

I currently have a M3P that is leased, and when my new MS Plaid is ready for me to pick up I'm planning on selling the M3P to Carvana or similar. I offered to trade it in to Tesla, but they only offered $45k for it. Carvana offered $54k and I haven't checked others yet. I can't buy it myself and sell it third party because it is a Tesla lease with no buyout option.
How can you trade the M3P to Caravan if you have no buyout option? It means it has to go back to Tesla.
 

Kairide

Member
Jul 13, 2021
189
235
CA
That creates a bit of a challenge, given process and communication issues at the Service Centers. I just returned a Land Rover and they used AutoVin for pre-inspection, which led to a seamless, accurate assessment. And then when I returned to a dealer, they recommended I record a video walk-around to save just in case damage occurred in transport from the dealer (bank owns the car, not the mfg. in this case). I just extended my 2018 Tesla lease for 6 months in hopes I can actually get a new Tesla after the dust settles (or alternative EV next year).
You could have just purchased it outright at a lower monthly interest rate than Tesla's lease Money Factor. Then sold it when ready for a profit. It's almost guaranteed that the residual in your lease is way below market value due to the craziness.
 

SoCal Buzz

Early Adopter
Supporting Member
Oct 9, 2018
518
434
Orange County, CA, USA
You could have just purchased it outright at a lower monthly interest rate than Tesla's lease Money Factor. Then sold it when ready for a profit. It's almost guaranteed that the residual in your lease is way below market value due to the craziness.
Residual is a bit high, at $62 K, partially because Tesla adds back $7,500 federal tax credit. At that price, and with the next gen released, I decided not to purchase again given it's not clear what it will be worth in 1 year.
 

Kairide

Member
Jul 13, 2021
189
235
CA
Residual is a bit high, at $62 K, partially because Tesla adds back $7,500 federal tax credit. At that price, and with the next gen released, I decided not to purchase again given it's not clear what it will be worth in 1 year.
Oh wow, they added back the $7500 Federal tax credit in your lease purchase quote? I just purchased my 2019 MS 75D lease last month, 8 months before the end of the lease. The quote was roughly the residual plus 8 months worth of the capital payments I wouldn't be making. Residual would have been $46K, buyout was $53K. Buying the car for $53K was a no brainer with the market value of the car in the $63K - $71K range.
 
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SoCal Buzz

Early Adopter
Supporting Member
Oct 9, 2018
518
434
Orange County, CA, USA
they added back the $7500 Federal tax credit in your lease purchase quote?
No, it’s just included in the residual. That’s how Tesla managed things before the fed tax credit ran out in 2018. After sales tax, it would take $68 K for me to acquire, about what I could sell for today. In 6-9 months, who knows. I want a new LR but not sure about yoke and delivery timing.
 
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kizamybute'

Member
Aug 24, 2019
204
481
Los Angeles, CA
Oh wow, they added back the $7500 Federal tax credit in your lease purchase quote? I just purchased my 2019 MS 75D lease last month, 8 months before the end of the lease. The quote was roughly the residual plus 8 months worth of the capital payments I wouldn't be making. Residual would have been $46K, buyout was $53K. Buying the car for $53K was a no brainer with the market value of the car in the $63K - $71K range.
This is why I always hated the government kickbacks. They NEVER benefitted the buyer. They simply allowed the manufacturers to charge more money for their cars and still advertise the "after credit / refund" pricing. A tactic that Tesla still does to this day, which I hate to see. It's a sleezy practice. For those not savvy on a computer, they may not notice. Whenever you do a build on Tesla's website, the pricing always defaults the price after savings. Chevy did this to, as did many others. Sadly, Tesla's tactic is now a desperate measure in that they reflect the pricing you'll pay after "gas savings"!! Really? Come on? So someone that drives 5,000 miles a year is going to save as much as someone driving 50,000 miles per year? Just reflect the actual price of the car and that's it, without me having to go click on "actual price" every single time.

As Tesla and the others then proved, as soon as their cars were no longer eligible for the tax credits, magically, the manufacturers were suddenly able to reduce their pricing. It turned out MUCH BETTER when Tesla's were no longer eligible for the credit as now everybody was able to get the reduced pricing, not just those that might qualify for the tax credit. Despite my making plenty of money and paying hefty taxes every year, the way my business is structured and deductions are, I have never once qualified for the actual federal tax credit. In the 9 years that I've owned multiple Tesla's, the 2019, which is by far superior to any of my prior cars, was also by far, the cheapest priced Tesla I purchased.

If the government wants to incentivize getting more EV's on the road, they need to just offer incentives to the manufacturers, since that's where the money goes anyway. That way, instead of many of the companies just building crap "compliance cars" that they had no motive to actually sell, it would force the manufacturers to actually put in an effort to move the EV market forward. Many years later, that's finally happening, mostly thanks to Tesla's success in the segment, but could have happened years ago.

I wish they would do away with it all together. That way, all buyers, regardless of whether their tax structure allows them to qualify for the credits, would get the same pricing as the next customer.
 
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sdorn

Director of Awesome
Supporting Member
Oct 9, 2016
1,041
1,057
Georgia
How can you trade the M3P to Caravan if you have no buyout option? It means it has to go back to Tesla.
If you go into the lease management section there is an option where you can sell to a dealer. You can't buy it out yourself, but you can sell it to another dealer. You can also terminate the lease early and turn the car back into Tesla if you want.

Either way they come up with a payoff amount. If you sell to a dealer, the dealer pays the payoff amount. If you terminate the lease and turn it back in to Tesla, Tesla applies the current value of the car to the payoff amount and you pay the difference, if any, or if there is equity in the car they would pay you theoretically.

In my case Tesla said the car was worth $45k and the lease termination cost was $51k, so I would have to pay the difference. Carvana is offering $54k, so I can sell to them and they will pay off Tesla and send me the difference.
 

sdorn

Director of Awesome
Supporting Member
Oct 9, 2016
1,041
1,057
Georgia
This is why I always hated the government kickbacks. They NEVER benefitted the buyer. They simply allowed the manufacturers to charge more money for their cars and still advertise the "after credit / refund" pricing. A tactic that Tesla still does to this day, which I hate to see. It's a sleezy practice. For those not savvy on a computer, they may not notice. Whenever you do a build on Tesla's website, the pricing always defaults the price after savings. Chevy did this to, as did many others. Sadly, Tesla's tactic is now a desperate measure in that they reflect the pricing you'll pay after "gas savings"!! Really? Come on? So someone that drives 5,000 miles a year is going to save as much as someone driving 50,000 miles per year? Just reflect the actual price of the car and that's it, without me having to go click on "actual price" every single time.

As Tesla and the others then proved, as soon as their cars were no longer eligible for the tax credits, magically, the manufacturers were suddenly able to reduce their pricing. It turned out MUCH BETTER when Tesla's were no longer eligible for the credit as now everybody was able to get the reduced pricing, not just those that might qualify for the tax credit. Despite my making plenty of money and paying hefty taxes every year, the way my business is structured and deductions are, I have never once qualified for the actual federal tax credit. In the 9 years that I've owned multiple Tesla's, the 2019, which is by far superior to any of my prior cars, was also by far, the cheapest priced Tesla I purchased.

If the government wants to incentivize getting more EV's on the road, they need to just offer incentives to the manufacturers, since that's where the money goes anyway. That way, instead of many of the companies just building crap "compliance cars" that they had no motive to actually sell, it would force the manufacturers to actually put in an effort to move the EV market forward. Many years later, that's finally happening, mostly thanks to Tesla's success in the segment, but could have happened years ago.

I wish they would do away with it all together. That way, all buyers, regardless of whether their tax structure allows them to qualify for the credits, would get the same pricing as the next customer.
To be fair the tax credits are there mainly for the benefit of the manufacturer, not the end consumer. That was by design in order to incentivize manufacturers to build electric cars in the first place. It was done through a tax incentive because that is one of the federal government's enumerated powers (taxation) under the US Constitution. Many government entitlement programs are done through the tax system because of that.
 

kizamybute'

Member
Aug 24, 2019
204
481
Los Angeles, CA
To be fair the tax credits are there mainly for the benefit of the manufacturer, not the end consumer. That was by design in order to incentivize manufacturers to build electric cars in the first place. It was done through a tax incentive because that is one of the federal government's enumerated powers (taxation) under the US Constitution. Many government entitlement programs are done through the tax system because of that.
right. it was also to incentive buyers as well. But, my point was, the buyers never gained from it. Those that qualified for it, at least got some money back, but because the manufacturers are just increasing their prices, they still paid for it up front. Those that didn't qualify for the tax credit really got screwed as they had to pay the manufacturer's jacked up pricing and got noting back. So, had the government simply incentivized the manufacturers directly, without involving the customers, everybody could have benefitted as we all would have paid the same price in the end (after savings).
 

CapeOne

Member
Jun 14, 2016
966
702
New England
This is why I always hated the government kickbacks. They NEVER benefitted the buyer. They simply allowed the manufacturers to charge more money for their cars and still advertise the "after credit / refund" pricing. A tactic that Tesla still does to this day, which I hate to see. It's a sleezy practice. For those not savvy on a computer, they may not notice. Whenever you do a build on Tesla's website, the pricing always defaults the price after savings. Chevy did this to, as did many others. Sadly, Tesla's tactic is now a desperate measure in that they reflect the pricing you'll pay after "gas savings"!! Really? Come on? So someone that drives 5,000 miles a year is going to save as much as someone driving 50,000 miles per year? Just reflect the actual price of the car and that's it, without me having to go click on "actual price" every single time.

I believe adding the federal tax credit to the residual value was mostly, if not entirely, a Tesla thing. Other manufacturers I've seen use the tax credit to lower the cap cost, which is how it should be done. The way Tesla does it, if someone buys the car at lease end they are actually paying for the $7,500 tax credit.

In addition to the gimmicky "potential gas savings" line item, Tesla also excludes the required $1,200 destination and doc fee in the “Purchase Price” figure which therefore shows a misleadingly lower price. The purchase price of a new MS LR (without extra cost options) should be listed as $91,190 yet they have it as $89,990.
 

TessP100D

Member
Jan 15, 2018
506
534
La Quinta, Ca
So I turned in my VERY well maintained 2018 MS lease to the Costa Mesa, CA Tesla Center when I picked up my new MYP. Two weeks later I'm hit with $3,330 in damage fees for front bumper painting, 4 new tires and 1 past due lease payment. None of these are true! My vehicle was 13,000 miles UNDER my allotment. I contacted the lease turn in department and put in a reassessment request. They ended up reducing the charges to $447 for new tires which I paid to get this over with. I am furious that Tesla would do this to a repeat customer. I have leased about 4 Lexus vehicles prior and never had to pay a dime. I'll never lease another vehicle from Tesla. Does anyone else have any lease fee horror stories or am I the only one?
Ahh the joy of Fleesing.
 
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