Mustang Mach E? What will I forgo?

[Shap]

It's also going to cost way more to charge at home. Will Ford be subsidizing everyone's home electric bills as well?

Way more you mean $10 per month?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Way more you mean $10 per month?

It depends on the monthly mileage driven and price of electricity, of course. Expect to pay 3 times as much for the Mach-E vs. a Model 3 on road trips.

 

[Shap]

everything in life is impermanent-enjoy what is Right here at this very moment-hence, Tesla is here!

One bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Actually it is better to wait

It depends on the monthly mileage driven and price of electricity, of course. Expect to pay 3 times as much for the Mach-E vs. a Model 3 on road trips.

How come? it is only 25% less efficient than Tesla !? Why 3 times more?

 

[ftmaybe]

you need to check out PlugShare to see the CCS network. It is pretty extensive here in CA. I believe Ford is offering a program similar to the other EV companies with a partnership with the various networks, maybe at discount rates, but I don’t have any details.

A good friend of mine has a Hyundai Ioniq EV, and has done multiple trips up and down CA. He's had numerous issues here or there. Certainly he could find chargers on plugshare but whether or not they are randomly blocked, out of service, or ICE'd causes what should be a simple "go and charge" step in your trip to be a total drag. Also he has sent me screenshots of the ridiculous charging rates he has had to pay, and they seem to vary wildly.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Actually it is better to wait


How come? it is only 25% less efficient than Tesla !? Why 3 times more?

On road trips.

It will also cost more for charging at home since it isn't as efficient. At least 25% more, as you point out. Road trips will be 3 times as much, if not more.

 

[Shap]

A good friend of mine has a Hyundai Ioniq EV, and has done multiple trips up and down CA. He's had numerous issues here or there. Certainly he could find chargers on plugshare but whether or not they are randomly blocked, out of service, or ICE'd causes what should be a simple "go and charge" step in your trip to be a total drag. Also he has sent me screenshots of the ridiculous charging rates he has had to pay, and they seem to vary wildly.

100% correct, and this is one of the biggest issues for now. However - I have a good ICE car, which is a WAY better than any EV, including any Tesla. I use it for long trips and I "recharge" 400miles in 4 minutes. And it has ventilated seats, all "autopilot" features, air suspension, etc.

 

[Shap]

On road trips.

It will also cost more for charging at home since it isn't as efficient. At least 25% more, as you point out. Road trips will be 3 times as much, if not more.

Right, but you mentioned that home charging will cost much more. So IMHO home charging is not an issue (10$ more per month anyone can handle). The problem indeed exists for long trips, BUT - we do not know what agreement Ford will sign and what the price will be. So it is pure speculation for now.

 

[ftmaybe]

However - I have a good ICE car, which is a WAY better than any EV, including any Tesla. I use it for long trips and I "recharge" 400miles in 4 minutes. And it has ventilated seats, all "autopilot" features, air suspension, etc.

Certainly "way better than any EV" is subjective. I will say that driving on the freeway, I personally don't care one way or the other ICE vs EV. But in town I definitely think that EV is an exponentially better experience.

 

[EinSV]

Your comparison is very biased and not true.

Let us compare same price range vehicles, that is Premium AWD ER ($58K

<snip>

Range: 316 mi v. 270mi (estimated - we need to wait for EPA)
Autopilot standard v Ford’s Level 2.5 ADAS - exactly the same. FSD analog option to be released in Q3 2021 at an added cost (8K for Tela)
Side collision warning v. same for Ford
Obstacle aware acceleration v. same for Ford
Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance v. same for Ford
Sentry Mode/Security Camera v. not clear yet

Hmmm, your list leaves out many important Model Y features/advantages listed in my earlier post.

Also, aside from updated range, you are just dead wrong: every item on your list is in fact missing on the Mach-E.

• Ford's new Co-Pilot 2.0 ADAS system being released in Q3 2021 is comparable to GM's Supercruise -- available only on limited highways.
  • It is NOT a standard feature -- it is an extra cost option
    
  • Ford so far has refused to say what it will cost
    
  • Since I focused on standard equipment I didn't mention FSD, but Ford has nothing remotely close to Tesla's FSD system available even as an option.
• Ford only has front collision warning not side collision warning. https://www.ford.com/technology/driver-assist-technology/pre-collision-assist/
• Ford has no obstacle aware acceleration
  
• Ford has nothing like Tesla's Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance, which steers a Tesla vehicle back into the lane if the system detects that it is departing its lane and there could be a collision, or if the car is close to the edge of the road. Ford only offers something along the lines of Tesla's standard lane departure avoidance, which is different: More Advanced Safety for Tesla Owners
  
• Ford has not claimed to have sentry mode or anything comparable

I agree federal tax credits could be a factor especially for buyers purchasing this fall, but even for eligible buyers those don't come close to bridging the value gap, which includes the full list of items in my earlier post.

As for buyers next year, will the current "Make Mexico, Korea, Germany, Japan, etc. Great Again" EV tax credit system survive after this year's election? I seriously doubt it.

Also, Texas is only one state. I'm not familiar with its incentive system and now that Gigafactory Texas is being built, there are likely changes in store in Texas as well.

 

[iamnid]

You’ll be giving up superior battery tech, super charger network, superior software and efficiency.

Plus, Ford is made in Mexico (Sorry Mexico) while Tesla is made in USA. Mustang is a boutique EV, while MY is a mass produced product. Line won’t be nearly as long for a Y

I agree that Tesla has superior battery tech, supercharger network and likely better software; however, I don't think the "made in USA" vs. "made in Mexico" is necessarily a better thing. I currently have a Model 3 and an Audi Q5. The Audi is made in Mexico and has vastly superior build quality than the Model 3. I think the build quality of the Mach E will be comparable to other Fords -- which is to say about the same if not slightly better than the typical Model 3 or Y. That said, I think the other pros associated with Tesla are what will ultimately make me choose a Model Y next year when my lease is up over the Mach E.

 

[Shap]

Certainly "way better than any EV" is subjective. I will say that driving on the freeway, I personally don't care one way or the other ICE vs EV. But in town I definitely think that EV is an exponentially better experience.

Agree. X7 is a way better car that any Tesla or other EV for long trips, it is not even subjective IMHO

Hmmm, your list leaves out many important Model Y features/advantages listed in my earlier post.

Also, aside from updated range, you are just dead wrong: every item on your list is in fact missing on the Mach-E.

• Ford's new Co-Pilot 2.0 ADAS system being released in Q3 2021 is comparable to GM's Supercruise -- available only on limited highways.
  • It is NOT a standard feature -- it is an extra cost option
    
  • Ford so far has refused to say what it will cost.
    
  • Since I focused on standard equipment I didn't mention FSD, but Ford has nothing remotely close to Tesla's FSD system available even as an option.
• Ford only has front collision warning not side collision warning. https://www.ford.com/technology/driver-assist-technology/pre-collision-assist/
• Ford has no obstacle aware acceleration
  
• Ford has nothing like Tesla's Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance, which steers a Tesla vehicle back into the lane if the system detects that it is departing its lane and there could be a collision, or if the car is close to the edge of the road. Ford only offers something along the lines of Tesla's standard lane departure avoidance, which is different: More Advanced Safety for Tesla Owners
  
• Ford has not claimed to have sentry mode or anything comparable

I agree federal tax credits could be a factor especially for buyers purchasing this fall, but even for eligible buyers those don't come close to bridging the value gap, which includes the full list of items in my earlier post.

As for buyers next year, will the current "Make Mexico, Korea, Germany, Japan, etc. Great Again" EV tax credit system survive after this year's election? I seriously doubt it.

Also, now that Gigafactory Texas is being built, there are likely changes in store in Texas as well.

Well, we can debate on some of these features, we can talk about missing blind spot detection for Tesla, etc.

One thing I do want to mention - Tesla Autopilot is the same as the build-in Ford ADAS 2.5 system that comes with any Mache for free.
(aka - ACC plus auto-steering). What will be released in Q3 2021 is a hands-free driving capability - that will allow you to not touch the wheel for when driving on some roads.

 

[75Shappyt]

nic

Hmmm, your list leaves out many important Model Y features/advantages listed in my earlier post.

Also, aside from updated range, you are just dead wrong: every item on your list is in fact missing on the Mach-E.

• Ford's new Co-Pilot 2.0 ADAS system being released in Q3 2021 is comparable to GM's Supercruise -- available only on limited highways.
  • It is NOT a standard feature -- it is an extra cost option
    
  • Ford so far has refused to say what it will cost
    
  • Since I focused on standard equipment I didn't mention FSD, but Ford has nothing remotely close to Tesla's FSD system available even as an option.
• Ford only has front collision warning not side collision warning. https://www.ford.com/technology/driver-assist-technology/pre-collision-assist/
• Ford has no obstacle aware acceleration
  
• Ford has nothing like Tesla's Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance, which steers a Tesla vehicle back into the lane if the system detects that it is departing its lane and there could be a collision, or if the car is close to the edge of the road. Ford only offers something along the lines of Tesla's standard lane departure avoidance, which is different: More Advanced Safety for Tesla Owners
  
• Ford has not claimed to have sentry mode or anything comparable

I agree federal tax credits could be a factor especially for buyers purchasing this fall, but even for eligible buyers those don't come close to bridging the value gap, which includes the full list of items in my earlier post.

As for buyers next year, will the current "Make Mexico, Korea, Germany, Japan, etc. Great Again" EV tax credit system survive after this year's election? I seriously doubt it.

Also, Texas is only one state. I'm not familiar with its incentive system and now that Gigafactory Texas is being built, there are likely changes in store in Texas as well.

e post

 

[john5520]

Ford is like that one worker you're afraid to assign any jobs that need to be done right the first time. The Mach-E is too good to be true given Ford's rep. I hope I'm proven wrong, because if their reputation for not fixing any EVER follows the Mach-E, their owners would be in for a wild ride. They won't have to worry about charger networks. If they make it out of their towns without needing service, it would be a miracle.

 

[75Shappyt]

nice post, EinSV

 

[MorrisonHiker]

@Shap, do you work on Ford's autonomous driving program in Austin or know someone who does?

 

[theganjaguru]

I agree that Tesla has superior battery tech, supercharger network and likely better software; however, I don't think the "made in USA" vs. "made in Mexico" is necessarily a better thing. I currently have a Model 3 and an Audi Q5. The Audi is made in Mexico and has vastly superior build quality than the Model 3. I think the build quality of the Mach E will be comparable to other Fords -- which is to say about the same if not slightly better than the typical Model 3 or Y. That said, I think the other pros associated with Tesla are what will ultimately make me choose a Model Y next year when my lease is up over the Mach E.

My Y was flawless. When people have bad experiences they tell everyone. Good experience they tell no one.

Regardless, my stance on made in USA isn’t all about build quality. It’s about spending my money so it goes to my fellow Americans. I love Mexico, so don’t get me wrong, but I’d rather buy American made. Mexico also has worse environmental regulations, which is why cars are made there. Environment and exploit cheap labor. We’ve trashed this planet enough.

 

[EinSV]

Agree. X7 is a way better car that any Tesla or other EV for long trips, it is not even subjective IMHO


Well, we can debate on some of these features, we can talk about missing blind spot detection for Tesla, etc.

One thing I do want to mention - Tesla Autopilot is the same as the build-in Ford ADAS 2.5 system that comes with any Mache for free.
(aka - ACC plus auto-steering). What will be released in Q3 2021 is a hands-free driving capability - that will allow you to not touch the wheel for when driving on some roads.

To say the "free" version of Ford's Co-Pilot 360 system has something like Autopilot is wrong. The free version only has adaptive cruise control and some active safety features, but for automated driving (on a limited set of highways) owners will need to pony up an unknown amount for the upgrade that's supposed to be coming around Q3 2021. If you have a reliable source to the contrary please post it.

Also, you are wrong about blind spot detection -- Tesla's have had blind spot detection/warnings since Feb. 2019. Tesla releases new software update with blind spot warning and auto-folding mirrors - Electrek

 

[Az_Rael]

Also, you are wrong about blind spot detection -- Tesla's have had blind spot detection/warnings since Feb. 2019

I think anyone who has used any other make's blind spot warning system would probably be extremely disappointed with Tesla's very poor to almost non existent system. I don't think I have used it once because I look at the mirror to change lanes, not the center screen. And it hasn't ever warned me audibly of someone in my blind spot, even when I have a blinker on and someone is actually in my blind spot like other systems do.

 

[Az_Rael]

which steers a Tesla vehicle back into the lane if the system detects that it is departing its lane and there could be a collision, or if the car is close to the edge of the road

The Ford system will also correct your steering back in the lane, so I am not sure it is that much different, other than it doesn't work below 40mph. Lane steering correction is a very common safety feature nowadays, Tesla was actually a bit behind the curve when they added it recently.

 

[john5520]

I think anyone who has used any other make's blind spot warning system would probably be extremely disappointed with Tesla's very poor to almost non existent system. I don't think I have used it once because I look at the mirror to change lanes, not the center screen. And it hasn't ever warned me audibly of someone in my blind spot, even when I have a blinker on and someone is actually in my blind spot like other systems do.

I can vouch for the audible warning as it saved me from getting rear-ended by some fool weaving in and out of traffic. It's warned me on couple other occasions so it does work.