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My new solar and Powerwall installation
- Thread starter ecarfan
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- Powerwall Tesla Energy
I mentioned this in one of my posts just upthread, but wanted to reiterate to make sure no one missed it (and need to correct the incorrect information I posted earlier, quoted just above): in the event of a grid failure the switchover to my solar/Powerwall system is automatic. It may take a minute or two, or less than a minute (not instantaneous) but it will occur automatically, I do not have to do anything. Which is supercool, and means that even if I am not at home my fridge will keep running as well as my wifi router.
Yes, I learned yesterday that I do indeed have a Zigbee wifi connection from the SolarEdge inverter to my home wifi network, that was set up today. So now I have access to the SolarEdge web portal.
For the inverter firmware to properly manage the energy flow in the system (when to charge the battery, when to draw power from the battery) it needs to know my electrical rate schedule. I am on the PG&E EVA TOU plan. The rate schedule and time schedule in that plan need to be communicated to the inverter firmware by someone entering them into the SolarEdge web portal. Today I learned that can only be done by someone with admin access. My login, as set up by my solar installer, does not have admin access. I have requested that access level. The solar installer said they do not normally give customers admin access. Given that I own the system I believe I should have that level of access. I hope/expect to be in my house with this solar system for 30 years if I am fortunate enough to live that long (the actuarial tables give me a reasonable chance of achieving that goal). The company that installed my solar system may not be around that long. Small businesses (and many large ones) come and go. I will get admin level access to my system.
Garlan Garner
Banned
YOU need admin rights. If you ever want to add any more panels or adjust the electricity KWH charge rate you need admin rights. You would also want to adjust your alerting settings. You can be notified via text or email if there is an issue with your system. Zigbee sometimes needs to be reset ( I used to have it, however now I have converted to a wire to wireless Netgear system ). There are many reasons to have admin rights.
Hi Ecarfan, to get admin rights, first sign up for an installer account on the solaredge monitoring portal. This will take a day or two. Then call Solaredge Technical support and they can transfer your inverter from the installers account to your new installer account. Mind you that you will be on hold to talk to the technical support team about 30 minutes to an hour. You may need a serial number to start the account, just use your serial number for example 7F123456-1B and add 1 to the number before the "-" and subtract 1 from the number after the "-". It is just a simple hexadecimal check sum (ie 7F123457-1A).
SolarEdge
SolarEdge
JSkrehot
Member
Do you have like a 8,000 sqft home and like 3 Tesla's?! That is a insanely huge system! I did a 6.12 kW (24 panels) self install, produces 9,200 kWh/year, is south facing. That covers 108% of my usage from last year. I did get the larger Solar Edge Inverter so I could expand with more panels later after I have the Model 3 and determine if a bigger system is needed. My home is only 1,800 sqft though, 25 kW is MASSIVE!
I have a 1,600 sq ft home and two Teslas, no AC, no pool, no kids at home. My system is not "25 kW", it is 9.8kW.
JSkrehot
Member
Do you have net metering where you live with the electric company? I live in California and have PG&E. Between charging at work for free and home at night (or day as it would be coming from solar), I am not expecting a big increase in my electricity bill. 9.8 kW seems very big for a home with no AC and no kids. Do your two Teslas suck up that much juice?
Xminus6
Member
You mentioned that your computer reboot during a grid failure was annoying. Will you be getting a UPS for the computers to buffer the switchover? Companies like Tesla were loading up the SGIP system for AES so they narrowed the window for applications and have a long waiting list now. One big system takes away funds that small systems could use. At one time, the 5KW battery systems from Solar City using the Tesla cells, which was 10kWh, was at nearly $2/W. Big incentives a while back.
My family has one member with an at home business. We installed a Generac for them but also moved them from desktops to laptops and so the 10 second switch has a nice buffer with laptops acting as self UPS.
I am in California and am on PG&E and have net metering. Here is more info about it Net Energy Metering and Tracking-FAQ
You seem to think that a 9.8kW system is "very big" for my small house with no AC or kids. Plus, my wife works from home and I commute irregularly to various locations in the Bay Area. Since getting our two Teslas our monthly electric bill has doubled, but only to about $160/month.
So no I do not use a lot of electricity. However, I want to generate somewhat more than I consume on an annual basis and I want battery backup like I now have with the Powerwall, not because I want to make money getting paid the tiny $0.03/kWh that PG&E pays for excess but because I want to be self-sufficient when the grid is down and because I want to contribute towards reducing the amount of CO2 that humanity is pouring into the atmosphere. It is imperiling the future of life on our planet. Yes, even if the average global temperature goes up as much as 20C in the next few centuries there will still be cockroaches and bacteria and other heat tolerant species, but I think a more balanced and diverse environment would be better.
The technological solutions to anthropogenic climate change exist right now. We simply have to continue to innovate and drive the cost down so that everyone around the world can take advantage of the technologies Tesla is doing that, and I support their efforts.
Ulmo
Active Member
Although I know it really doesn't matter, I was extremely curious what that "auto transformer" is (in this context). Apparently, this time, Google helped me figure it out. Here's what I found on one website for what seems like a slightly different product lineup than what ecarfan has, but I think it gives me an idea of what it does (and by the way, why is it called an auto transformer when it could be called an auto transfer switch?):
"The SolarEdge 5kW Auto Transformer is designed to be connected to a StorEdge inverter for SolarEdge systems including battery backup. It acts as a transfer switch, senses power from the grid and sends battery and solar power to the backup load panel when the grid goes down. Without it you would keep sending power to the main house panel or the grid. It's required for any StorEdge system with batteries and is designed to regulate AC power for your critical loads if the grid goes down. The StorEdge system is compatible with 350Vdc batteries including the Tesla Powerwall home battery."
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I may be wrong here, but it must have another function besides being a transfer switch. Otherwise, they would just call it an Automatic Transfer Switch.
I believe a normal grid-tie solar inverter only connects to the L1 and L2 legs of your panel and has no connection to the neutral. This works well when you're connected to the grid because the utility transformer is there. When you operate an inverter like that with the grid disconnected by the transfer switch, you need to provide the neutral and balance the load across the two 120V legs from Neutral to L1 and Neutral to L2. Very few essential loads are 240V. The autotransformer provides this function and allows you to have slightly imbalanced 120V loads
I believe a normal grid-tie solar inverter only connects to the L1 and L2 legs of your panel and has no connection to the neutral. This works well when you're connected to the grid because the utility transformer is there. When you operate an inverter like that with the grid disconnected by the transfer switch, you need to provide the neutral and balance the load across the two 120V legs from Neutral to L1 and Neutral to L2. Very few essential loads are 240V. The autotransformer provides this function and allows you to have slightly imbalanced 120V loads
JSkrehot
Member
I applaud what you are doing, but with net metering, isn't the only advantage of the Powerwall to have electricity if the grid is down (which is nearly never)? If your bill was only $160/month, 9.8 kW system with net metering will more than fully cover your years energy consumption and net you a $0 electricity bill and then cover a bit of gas with that size?
One tip if you want more coverage than this forum is HomePower magazine. They do reviews of new tech quite often. They like to take pictures and write up the story in a positive light. The only thing they seem to do which may or may not work for you is to show the pricing breakout of all the system parts so other customers can plan ahead for similar expenses. If you would be willing to do all that, check out www.homepower.com and see if they will showcase you as an early adopter of the 100,000 Powerwall reservations. They are covering "backup power for grid-tied PV systems" right now. An organization I am involved in also covers this subject for its members and has produced a movie on the subject to educate the public. Does not use a Powerwall but essentially is the same solution.
9.8kW Solar PV should make well over 1200 kWh a month in the Bay area if no shading effects are apparent. My own 8kW is over 1000kWh and not in a generally sunny region. That is 3000+ EV miles a month. The two Teslas the OP has would have to do a lot of driving to "eat up" that 9.8 kW Solar. I assume 160 is about 700 kWh a month (.22/kWh+tax?) - to net-meter that without battery, I would say 4.8 kW would be all that is needed. 9.8kW + Powerwall would allow off-grid living. I have to go back and read through the post more but I wanted to find out what the system does once the batteries are full and not enough load exists for the full power output of the PV - do the PV inverters slow down their output? 9.8kW of load during mid-day sun is pretty hard to create when off-grid. Only one powerwall will fill up in under an hour even with a group of computers running. I have measured my own computers and routers (3 laptops, lights, phone, router/modem) at 240W in total.
9.8kW Solar PV should make well over 1200 kWh a month in the Bay area if no shading effects are apparent. My own 8kW is over 1000kWh and not in a generally sunny region. That is 3000+ EV miles a month. The two Teslas the OP has would have to do a lot of driving to "eat up" that 9.8 kW Solar. I assume 160 is about 700 kWh a month (.22/kWh+tax?) - to net-meter that without battery, I would say 4.8 kW would be all that is needed. 9.8kW + Powerwall would allow off-grid living. I have to go back and read through the post more but I wanted to find out what the system does once the batteries are full and not enough load exists for the full power output of the PV - do the PV inverters slow down their output? 9.8kW of load during mid-day sun is pretty hard to create when off-grid. Only one powerwall will fill up in under an hour even with a group of computers running. I have measured my own computers and routers (3 laptops, lights, phone, router/modem) at 240W in total.
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Not the only advantage, but obviously a big advantage. In my neighborhood, at least once a year there is a power outage. I recall one such outage that went on for over 5 hours. And as an aside, I live a mile from the San Andreas fault. Of course the entire Bay Area is crisscrossed with faults. When the next major quake comes I want to have power. I am not a fringe-case survivalist, I don't have a room full of food and water, I simply acknowledge the reality of my location on the planet.
Yes. And that sounds like a good thing to me.
Also, during the winter I plan to try using electric space heaters to reduce my use of natural gas. Electric space heaters use a lot of current.
My refrigerator, dryer, washing machine, dishwasher, and other things use most of my electricity. I did not install my PV system just to charge my cars, and in fact when I arrive home in the late afternoon with one of my Tesla batteries low and need 40 or 60kWh obviously I cannot get anything like that from my system. I need the grid.
The excess PV power is sent to the grid. I am not "off grid" nor do I wish to be. I need the grid. But I want to use it as little as possible.
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Once the grid is down, you do go off-grid for a bit. So, I was wondering if the grid stops at 9am and the solar is "cooking" through the day, what shunts the power from the solar if the powerwall is full and the house load is relatively lower than the max power the solar PV will output? In the "old days" people would install hot water heaters and radiators to shunt such power but I know newer charger-inverters will just not take as much amperage off the solar PV environment. With SolarEdge they may be able to control it at the module if circuits are such.
Your location in CA is very good for temperature regulation. I can't see how you'd need a winter heater
But that certainly is a great idea to use an electric heater solution to get off NG. I've gone to an electric heat pump primarily and rarely use the gas system that would work when our temps are below freezing. Raises my electric usage but my burn of fossil fuel in the winter has gone down substantially.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. It is true that when the grid goes down the automatic switchover to solar and battery takes a minute or two. When I said "The excess PV power is sent to the grid" I was answering this question posed by @bonaire :
The SolarEdge components in my system "shunt" the excess power being produced to the grid. It is done automatically.
I know you are joking, but seriously, I definitely need heat in the winter (average daytime temps can be in the low 50's or less) and sometimes even in the summer due to my proximity to the coast and the marine cloud layer coming in daily and hanging around for hours, it can be quite cool.I can't see how you'd need a winter heater
And yes, long term I am interested in an electric heat pump. Pretty sure that will require adding more panels and an inverter that won't clip my peak output.
Falkirk
Member
Garlan Garner
Banned
I always use any opportunity I can to promote SolarEdge which ecarfan and I share. They are fantastic. SolarEdge provides an opportunity to see Panel level performance.
I can't wait to use the power I'm currently sending to the grid as power for my M3. Waiting on Tesla for that part.
I have included a link in my signature below.
I can't wait to use the power I'm currently sending to the grid as power for my M3. Waiting on Tesla for that part.
I have included a link in my signature below.
I may have missed it in the thread.
When grid goes down, your electricity in the home can be run from the Solar + Battery, correct? You still have to reboot the PCs after the grid failure, but after the solar/battery combo comes up.
That means you "act like" you are off-grid - while the grid is down. However, when solar is mid-day, it may be producing excess power over your circuits aggregate demand. If you follow that, I was wondering what in the system "dumps" excess power or does SolarEdge shunt some of the modules somehow and only let through power enough to run the home's demand. In a traditional hybrid-solar system, the charge controller would have a circuit to route the Solar PV elsewhere, like hot-water heater, space heaters, that kind of thing. What I'm mainly talking about is a "dump load" circuit. Like this: Using a high power resistor as a dump load
When grid goes down, your electricity in the home can be run from the Solar + Battery, correct? You still have to reboot the PCs after the grid failure, but after the solar/battery combo comes up.
That means you "act like" you are off-grid - while the grid is down. However, when solar is mid-day, it may be producing excess power over your circuits aggregate demand. If you follow that, I was wondering what in the system "dumps" excess power or does SolarEdge shunt some of the modules somehow and only let through power enough to run the home's demand. In a traditional hybrid-solar system, the charge controller would have a circuit to route the Solar PV elsewhere, like hot-water heater, space heaters, that kind of thing. What I'm mainly talking about is a "dump load" circuit. Like this: Using a high power resistor as a dump load
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