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My Raven P100DL was rear-ended this week

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vapor trail

vapor trail

Member
Sep 9, 2015
335
359
Roseville, CA
#1
Title says it all. On way home from work in some freeway rush hour traffic. Had come to a gradual stop, along with flow of the traffic. I happened to glance in my rearview mirror to see a white car flying toward me at a very fast clip. With traffic at a full stop in front of me, I was a sitting duck at that point. The car scrambled at the last moment to try to avoid my car and drive onto the inside shoulder...but failed.

Impact was on rear driver's side of car. Totally shattered the rear wheel. The tire actually popped completely off the wheel. The driver's side rear wheel seemed totally disengaged from the suspension and possibly the rear motor. It was so painful watching the tow truck driver get it onto the flatbed in that state of disrepair, and backing it off was even worse.

Looking forward to hopefully read some good success stories of repaired Tesla's! My car is fortunately at a very experienced shop that literally has a whole team who exclusively work on Tesla's and the foreman of the group is a Tesla fan with his own Model S and Model 3. So, it's in good hands. Still this is extremely maddending and frustrating. The car is only around two months old. Barely 500 miles on the odometer. Fresh xpel treatment for entire car.

Now the wait.....
 
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#5
vapor trail said:
Title says it all. On way home from work in some freeway rush hour traffic. Had come to a gradual stop, along with flow of the traffic. I happened to glance in my rearview mirror to see a white car flying toward me at a very fast clip. With traffic at a full stop in front of me, I was a sitting duck at that point. The car scrambled at the last moment to try to avoid my car and drive onto the inside shoulder...but failed.

Impact was on rear driver's side of car. Totally shattered the rear wheel. The tire actually popped completely off the wheel. The driver's side rear wheel seemed totally disengaged from the suspension and possibly the rear motor. It was so painful watching the tow truck driver get it onto the flatbed in that state of disrepair, and backing it off was even worse.

Looking forward to hopefully read some good success stories of repaired Tesla's! My car is fortunately at a very experienced shop that literally has a whole team who exclusively work on Tesla's and the foreman of the group is a Tesla fan with his own Model S and Model 3. So, it's in good hands. Still this is extremely maddending and frustrating. The car is only around two months old. Barely 500 miles on the odometer. Fresh xpel treatment for entire car.

Now the wait.....
Click to expand...

So sorry to hear :(

I would not want that car back. You are likely looking at at least $15-20K just in Diminished Value and about 2+ months of waiting to get your car back.

I hope the person who hit you has insurance. Assuming they do, tell them you want a replacement car and the car that was destroyed is now theirs.

Also tell them you will be renting a Model S while the car is at the shop and they'll have to pay the bill. Don't take any BS about how they don't cover rental fees for certain types of cars. Just the rental can easily amount to $200 a day so have them do the math in what it would cost them to have you drive a Tesla rental for around $5-6,000 a month for as long as your car is at the shop.

So two months is about $12,000 for renting a Tesla from Turo or some other service, plus $15-20,000 for Diminished Value and the damage is likely at least around $20,000.

These sums are large enough that I strongly suggest that you have an experienced accident attorney handle things for you.If you have any back pain or other injury, that should be accounted for also.

Given your car is essentially new, your goal should be to have them write you a check for a new car and I bet you can find an inventory car for delivery within weeks.

What you don't want is to wait for4 months without your car and then get a car back with a massive amount of damaged repaired. That car might never drive the same again.

Don't underestimate the importance of factoring in Diminished Value as a part of your loss, as your car is now worth less and you need to be made whole.
 
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#7
Thanks for the thoughts. Opposite of what I was hoping to read. But, honest comments.

I spoke to the collision shop manager about the car. He says it's pretty unlikely it will be considered totalled. He told me there are a few points of damage (mostly centered around the battery compartment, as far as I can tell) that would render the car totalled. Otherwise, it's a matter of stripping off all the damaged components and rebuilding from there.

I don't have an attorney. Was hoping to avoid that move. Allstate is the other driver's insurance company. They've agreed to provide a "premium" class rental from Enterprise, which equates to something in the range of a Maxima. Hardly what I'd call premium. And that is only if I go through them for the entire claim repair process (and leave my insurance company out of it entirely). I'm not thrilled with that notion, not at least having my insurance company in my corner.

You guys make is sound like all I have to do is ask for a new car and they have to write the check. Is it really that simple? Isn't reality that I have to accept the collision shops recommendations? Anyone have SPECIFIC experience with something like this. Naturally, I'd prefer to just replace the car, since it's essentially still a new vehicle. But is that really my choice?
 
#9
vapor trail said:
Thanks for the thoughts. Opposite of what I was hoping to read. But, honest comments.

I spoke to the collision shop manager about the car. He says it's pretty unlikely it will be considered totalled. He told me there are a few points of damage (mostly centered around the battery compartment, as far as I can tell) that would render the car totalled. Otherwise, it's a matter of stripping off all the damaged components and rebuilding from there.

I don't have an attorney. Was hoping to avoid that move. Allstate is the other driver's insurance company. They've agreed to provide a "premium" class rental from Enterprise, which equates to something in the range of a Maxima. Hardly what I'd call premium. And that is only if I go through them for the entire claim repair process (and leave my insurance company out of it entirely). I'm not thrilled with that notion, not at least having my insurance company in my corner.

You guys make is sound like all I have to do is ask for a new car and they have to write the check. Is it really that simple? Isn't reality that I have to accept the collision shops recommendations? Anyone have SPECIFIC experience with something like this. Naturally, I'd prefer to just replace the car, since it's essentially still a new vehicle. But is that really my choice?
Click to expand...

This is why you should get an attorney who specializes in accidents and diminished value to represent you.

Of course the body shop is going to tell you they can fix the car so they can bill the insurance company for likely around $20,000 of work. The body shop's interest here is being able to bill someone for the repair not making sure you are whole.

What are you going to do when parts are delayed month after month? When they tear down the car and find extra damage and again wait for more part delays? What if the car doesn't drive the same after waiting 4 months? And what about the $15-20K in diminished value?

Someone just cost you about $15-20K in diminished value and took your car away from you for most likely about 3-4 months of repairs. Why should you drive a Maxima for 4 months due to someone else's negligence? You can't let the other insurance company dictate terms to you. The total loss for you is around or over $50K after you add up accident damage, diminished value, and what it would cost to rent a Model S for about 4 months. I would absolutely spend a few thousand dollars on an attorney to make sure I'm made whole if someone cost me a loss in this range.

Do you have any back pain from the accident at all? If you do, it becomes a personal injury situation and you'll have a much easier time getting an attorney to represent you. If it were me, this is what I would do.

+ If I had any back pain or other injury, I would mention that and document your pain during an examination with a doctor. Could be as simple as stating you have back pain, have difficulty bending down, sleeping, etc.,
+ Go on Turo and look up how much a Model S P100D will cost to rent and let the insurance company know you want a Model S P100D to drive while you wait for a resolution. If they bring up a Maxima, tell them you would have bought a Maxima if you wanted to drive one. This way they will be liable for that cost each day they drag settling the claim as it will cost them the daily cost of a Model S rental. Alternatively they can find you another Model S P100D to drive.
+ Since the car is so new, you have the maximum benefit of Diminished Value. Get a Diminished Value estimate and make this a part of your claim. Tesla Model S Appraisal Clause Dispute ⋆ Petty Details - Diminished Value Experts
+ They also need to cover the cost of the repair which I bet will be over $20K.

You should make it more financially advantageous for them to give you a check for a replacement car than going the repair route. An experienced lawyer can help with this. If you can get them to give you a check for a new car, you'll be back in a Model S P100D within 1-3 weeks by buying an inventory car and you can put this mess behind you. Otherwise it will be 4 months of frustration and hassle to get your car back in who knows what condition.

Here's another way to present the situation

Scenario 1 - Costs insurance company $50K. You are back in a P100D in 1-3 weeks.
They give you a check for a replacement Model S P100D plus tax so you can buy a new car. Will likely cost them around $110K.
But they get to keep your Model S, which would likely be worth at least around $60K with the damage so they are out by the amount of the difference. You can agree to not pursue additional claims, assuming you have no injury or other future issue.

Scenario 2 - Costs insurance company at least around $60K and possibly more
Pay you for Diminished Value: $15-20K
Pay you for any pain and suffering: $10-25K or more (if applicable and you are injured)
Pay for the repair: $20-25K (could easily be higher)
Pay for a Model S P100D rental: At least 5K a month for likely at least 3 months: $15K
Pay you further when you sue them for attorney fees, cost of the diminished value estimate, and whatever other loss you suffer or your attorney dreams up.

You can easily make the argument that it is in everyone's best interest for them to settle with you rather than be liable for significantly more damages after you hire an attorney. At which point you can tell them you will now also be suing for attorney fees.

Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney and this is just my opinion on what I would do. If I were me, I would have an attorney handle this situation. The insurance company may stop with BS and want to settle as quickly as possible as soon as they know you are being represented by an attorney.

The insurance company may opt to settle with you quickly so they don't risk a much greater loss with your attorney involved and you could possibly also have the insurance company pay your attorney fees as well, if they disagree to a reasonable settlement necessitating representation for you.
 
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#10
PhilDavid said:
This is why you should get an attorney who specializes in accidents and diminished value to represent you.

Of course the body shop is going to tell you they can fix the car so they can bill the insurance company for likely around $20,000 of work. The body shop's interest here is being able to bill someone for the repair not making sure you are whole.

What are you going to do when parts are delayed month after month? When they tear down the car and find extra damage and again wait for more part delays? What if the car doesn't drive the same after waiting 4 months? And what about the $15-20K in diminished value?

Someone just cost you about $15-20K in diminished value and took your car away from you for most likely about 3-4 months of repairs. Why should you drive a Maxima for 4 months due to someone else's negligence? You can't let the other insurance company dictate terms to you. The total loss for you is around or over $50K after you add up accident damage, diminished value, and what it would cost to rent a Model S for about 4 months. I would absolutely spend a few thousand dollars on an attorney to make sure I'm made whole if someone cost me a loss in this range.

Do you have any back pain from the accident at all? If you do, it becomes a personal injury situation and you'll have a much easier time getting an attorney to represent you. If it were me, this is what I would do.

+ If I had any back pain or other injury, I would mention that and document your pain during an examination with a doctor. Could be as simple as stating you have back pain, have difficulty bending down, sleeping, etc.,
+ Go on Turo and look up how much a Model S P100D will cost to rent and let the insurance company know you want a Model S P100D to drive while you wait for a resolution. If they bring up a Maxima, tell them you would have bought a Maxima if you wanted to drive one. This way they will be liable for that cost each day they drag settling the claim as it will cost them the daily cost of a Model S rental. Alternatively they can find you another Model S P100D to drive.
+ Since the car is so new, you have the maximum benefit of Diminished Value. Get a Diminished Value estimate and make this a part of your claim. Tesla Model S Appraisal Clause Dispute ⋆ Petty Details - Diminished Value Experts
+ They also need to cover the cost of the repair which I bet will be over $20K.

You should make it more financially advantageous for them to give you a check for a replacement car than going the repair route. An experienced lawyer can help with this. If you can get them to give you a check for a new car, you'll be back in a Model S P100D within 1-3 weeks by buying an inventory car and you can put this mess behind you. Otherwise it will be 4 months of frustration and hassle to get your car back in who knows what condition.

Here's another way to present the situation

Scenario 1 - Costs insurance company $50K. You are back in a P100D in 1-3 weeks.
They give you a check for a replacement Model S P100D plus tax so you can buy a new car. Will likely cost them around $110K.
But they get to keep your Model S, which would likely be worth at least around $60K with the damage so they are out by the amount of the difference. You can agree to not pursue additional claims, assuming you have no injury or other future issue.

Scenario 2 - Costs insurance company at least around $60K and possibly more
Pay you for Diminished Value: $15-20K
Pay you for any pain and suffering: $10-25K or more (if applicable and you are injured)
Pay for the repair: $20-25K (could easily be higher)
Pay for a Model S P100D rental: At least 5K a month for likely at least 3 months: $15K

You can easily make the argument that it is in everyone's best interest for them to settle with you rather than be liable for significantly more damages after you hire an attorney.

Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney and this is just my opinion on what I would do. If I were me, I would have an attorney handle this situation. The insurance company may stop with BS and want to settle as quickly as possible as soon as they know you are being represented by an attorney.

The insurance company may opt to settle with you quickly so they don't risk a much greater loss with your attorney involved and you could possibly also have the insurance company pay your attorney fees as well, if they disagree to a reasonable settlement necessitating representation for you.
Click to expand...
This is the most informative post I’ve read on here regarding accidents.
 
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#11
I would like to see TMC setup a section where regardless of the model, the threads would be strictly people's experiences and comments about accidents - both woes and successes. This would be a valuable service to current and new members. Unless we will never see another "Someone slammed into the rear of my Tesla". thread.
 
#12
Attorney here in CA who handles these types of cases, working for a large PI firm. I hate hearing stories like this on here. First and foremost hopefully you are okay and no lingering injuries. Putting aside the car, any lawsuit, etc. you should go get checked out. An impact that can cause the damage you describe here can also unfortunately do some things to your body. It's worth going to get checked out.

PhilDavid has given you some good advice. What coverages the person who hit you has and what you have will come into play.

If I can answer anything for you I'm more than happy to. I've relied on so much expertise that has been given away by others here that I have no problem giving back. Feel free to PM me or ask away here.
 
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#16
Diminished Value cannot be worked until a car is repaired, so you have time to find the appraiser of your choice. I used Petty Details and was satisfied.

If the accident occurred in CA, I believe the totaling threshold is "cost of repairs + salvage value >= actual cash value". Since you have a brand new car, that may be a tough threshold to clear.

HOWEVER, if you point out right away to Allstate that you will be pursuing Loss of Use unless a Tesla Model S is given to you as a rental/loaner, as well as Diminished Value after the car is returned to you, they may change their minds about repair vs total.

If Allstate is denying you a Tesla Model S rental, get that in writing or a verbal recording immediately. You will need this down the road if lawsuits come into play.

From a rental perspective, it probably does not make sense to file a collision claim with your own policy - my company told me they only provide a rental to the coverage limits I carry, and would not subrogate additional costs. YMMV.

I'd expect a 4-6 month repair timeline...force Allstate's hand as much as you can.

Good luck.
 
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#17
This keeps getting to be a even more interesting thread. Here's a link to an article I saved a few months back that might be useful.
Total-loss thresholds by state | CarInsurance.com

I've asked one of the moderator to consider creating a Damaged Tesla section and for crashed/wrecked Teslas. Sort of a central place we can find shared experiences. We will see.

I'm with USAA. I've talked to them about DV before I needed to address it. They say they don't cover it and don't offer protection. I suspected that was their answer. I filed a comment asking for the coverage and a premium to cover it.

I am trying to prepare for worse case - other driver has no insurance. I checked around a little. Seems most insurance companies offer coverage that is only 30 days of rental in the event of accident (not the other driver's insurance.) What happens after 30 days. No answer. I've asked them for "the money" a sum of money and I will take care of the rental (if needed) from my own company. Why? Past experiences posted here and TM indicate serious damage results in 4-6 months for repairs. I am not going to not drive a Tesla now. I will go to my Plan B. Find and buy a used Tesla (maybe even one that has been traded in to Tesla before it goes to Mannheim. The use it and make it better than it was when I bought it. When mine is repaired, sell this used one hopefully recovering all if not most of my costs. And if I can get my insurance company to give me a cash payout on my rental coverage, that will help offset further loss. And still will have been driving a Tesla.
 
#18
FoxSTL2HOU said:
Diminished Value cannot be worked until a car is repaired, so you have time to find the appraiser of your choice. I used Petty Details and was satisfied.

If the accident occurred in CA, I believe the totaling threshold is "cost of repairs + salvage value >= actual cash value". Since you have a brand new car, that may be a tough threshold to clear.

HOWEVER, if you point out right away to Allstate that you will be pursuing Loss of Use unless a Tesla Model S is given to you as a rental/loaner, as well as Diminished Value after the car is returned to you, they may change their minds about repair vs total.

If Allstate is denying you a Tesla Model S rental, get that in writing or a verbal recording immediately. You will need this down the road if lawsuits come into play.

From a rental perspective, it probably does not make sense to file a collision claim with your own policy - my company told me they only provide a rental to the coverage limits I carry, and would not subrogate additional costs. YMMV.

I'd expect a 4-6 month repair timeline...force Allstate's hand as much as you can.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

This is wrong information! A car neither has to be sold nor repaired in order to qualify for diminished value.
 
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#19
MyWifeandI said:
This is wrong information! A car neither has to be sold nor repaired in order to qualify for diminished value.
Click to expand...

Before a collision, I'll define the car's value as Actual Cash Value.
After a collision but before repairs, there is a value I will call salvage value (what you'd pay the insurance company to get the car back if they totaled it and gave you the ACV). I believe this is what you are referring to as DV in your post.
After repairs, the car has a modified Actual Cash Value; the difference in pre-collision and post-repair ACVs is what I believe to be the standard definition of diminished value. I would not group the salvage value in with this definition.
 
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