NACS is still not officially supported by US Gov. (Infrastructure bill)

[MontyFloyd]

I was looking how the Infrastructure bill words the stations, and currently it does NOT require NACS.

The key line is:

Connector type. All charging connectors must meet applicable industry standards. Each DCFC charging port must be capable of charging any CCS-compliant vehicle and each DCFC charging port must have at least one permanently attached CCS Type 1 connector. In addition, permanently attached CHAdeMO (www.chademo.com) connectors can be provided using only FY2022 NEVI Funds. Each AC Level 2 charging port must have a permanently attached J1772 connector and must charge any J1772-compliant vehicle.

What I understand is, at least for L2, NACS is not approved.

The "National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program Q&A" says

Question: Can North American Charging Standard (NACS) connectors be installed using NEVI Formula Program or Title 23 U.S.C. funds?

Answer: Yes. NACS connectors can be installed on existing or new Direct Current Fast Chargers (DCFCs) using NEVI Formula Program or other eligible title 23 U.S. C. funds. The National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Standards and Requirements (see 23 CFR 680.106(c) [posted above] ) allow for permanently attached non-proprietary connectors (such as NACS) to be provided on each charging port so long as the requirements of 23 CFR 680 are met, including that each DCFC charging port has at least one permanently attached Combined Charging System (CCS) Type 1 connector and is capable of charging a CCS-compliant vehicle.

Which goes counter to the actual law.
Yes is says "All charging connectors must meet applicable industry standards.", but that is over ridden by the CCS requirement which could shut out adding NACS. For sure the L2 is almost always 1 connector per station, and that must be a J1772.

Also this document

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/nevi/formula_prog_guid/90d_nevi_formula_program_guidance.pdf

It probably will require a change in the law to avoid lawsuits against someone.

Did I miss something?

 

[Tam]

I was looking how the Infrastructure bill words the stations, and currently it does NOT require NACS.

It didn't require NACS then and it doesn't now, so the CCS1 requirement is not the issue.

The issue is how to get money from Uncle Sam.

Tesla was ineligible to get Uncle Sam's money before because its NACS had only 1 single company using it.

Once it has more than 1 company using it, then it is now eligible for Uncle Sam's money but it still has to have at least 4 stalls with CCS1 per Tesla station.

To comply with the 4 CCS1 minimal requirement, Tesla doesn't have to lose 4 NACS stalls because those 4 stalls could be Magic Dock that permanently work for both CCS1 and NACS.

...For sure the L2 is almost always 1 connector per station, and that must be a J1772...

The new Tesla universal wall connector has both J1772 and NACS permanently, so there's no issue to worry about whether the connector only has one but not the other.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The new Tesla universal wall connector has both J1772 and NACS permanently, so there's no issue to worry about whether the connector only has one but not the other.

And if anybody says "But it's an adapter", the adapter is always either connected to the NACS plug or the EVSE therefore it is "permanently attached". Nobody has to fiddle with an adapter and it effectively operates the same as a dedicated J1772 where you push the same button to release the J1772 from the EVSE or from the car.

You have to love the Tesla Charging team.

I suspect some of the discussions with the administration might have been clarifying that they wouldn't oppose use of the adapter. It's great that it's expanded to AC as well.

 

[MP3Mike]

And if anybody says "But it's an adapter", the adapter is always either connected to the NACS plug or the EVSE therefore it is "permanently attached".

That isn't true for MagicDock, people have shown that the adapter can be removed from the cable in less than 2 seconds.

I don't know if they have a different locking method for the Universal Wall Connector, as nobody has gotten one to see how it works yet. (Except one YouTuber.)

 

[ATPMSD]

The government decided CCS1 was the most popular and, therefore, should be the “standard.” The market has decided NACS is the standard so anyone who deploys CCS1 better plan on a short payback. IMHO, CCS1 is now the “Waking Dead.”

 

[ewoodrick]

That isn't true for MagicDock, people have shown that the adapter can be removed from the cable in less than 2 seconds.

I don't know if they have a different locking method for the Universal Wall Connector, as nobody has gotten one to see how it works yet. (Except one YouTuber.)

And you can also cut the cord off. It's legislation, there doesn't have to be any resemblance to reality in it. Just got to convince someone to write a check.

 

[Tam]

That isn't true for MagicDock, people have shown that the adapter can be removed from the cable in less than 2 seconds.

I don't know if they have a different locking method for the Universal Wall Connector, as nobody has gotten one to see how it works yet. (Except one YouTuber.)

The rules are made for the honest. It discourages the honest becomes dishonest but it cannot stop a dishonest to practice dishonesty.

When there's a yellow ribbon to keep civilians out from a crime scene, it's not razor wires, it's not exploding dynamites so those who don't obey the rules can easily get through plastic ribbon.

Same with Tesla steering wheel torque monitor, people can find ways to go around that rule...

 

[MontyFloyd]

It didn't require NACS then and it doesn't now, so the CCS1 requirement is not the issue.

The issue is how to get money from Uncle Sam.

Tesla was ineligible to get Uncle Sam's money before because its NACS had only 1 single company using it.

Once it has more than 1 company using it, then it is now eligible for Uncle Sam's money but it still has to have at least 4 stalls with CCS1 per Tesla station.

To comply with the 4 CCS1 minimal requirement, Tesla doesn't have to lose 4 NACS stalls because those 4 stalls could be Magic Dock that permanently work for both CCS1 and NACS.


The new Tesla universal wall connector has both J1772 and NACS permanently, so there's no issue to worry about whether the connector only has one but not the other.

Thanks for the info!

I wonder, IIRC there is a limited selection of non-Tesla's able to charge on SC now? Would that be enough?

 

[Tam]

Thanks for the info!

I wonder, IIRC there is a limited selection of non-Tesla's able to charge on SC now? Would that be enough?

Correct. Non-Tesla must use Magic Dock Stations, and there are not many currently. That is not enough but it's expanding slowly. It has arrived in Alaska!

But this thread is about getting the government money.

The National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) does not pay Tesla for the current Magic Dock because it requires 920VDC and none of the Superchargers are. The maximum Supercharger can do now is only 400VDC.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Correct. Non-Tesla must use Magic Dock Stations, and there are not many currently. That is not enough but it's expanding slowly. It has arrived in Alaska!

But this thread is about getting the government money.

The National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) does not pay Tesla for the current Magic Dock because it requires 920VDC and none of the Superchargers are. The maximum Supercharger can do now is only 400VDC.

It also requires contactless card payment. Tesla now has one or two V4s open in Europe with card payment built in. V4 also lengthens the cables for more flexibility.

There's also now locations in Taiwan with separate pedestals with initiation and charging information, but I think that's more about having to display information at existing locations:

Tesla adds standalone screens at Superchargers in Taiwan

Tesla has started adding standalone screens at Superchargers in Taiwan. While the screens might seem like a bizarre addition for Tesla to make, the company has been forced to do it due to new regulations [...]

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