National Grid and Tesla Backup Switch [PV + (1) PW+ and (1) PW2]

[FurryOne]

I got my scheduled solar panel & Powerwall+ installation Friday. Everything was going fairly well until National Grid returned to check things out. That's when they spotted Tesla's new Backup Switch attached to the meter socket and things went downhill from there. The two NG guys had never seen anything like it, and refused to allow power back on with it attached. After quite a bit of back & forth, the designated electrical inspector showed up, inspected the Backup Switch, and declared it to be a valid piece of equipment, but the National Grid guys wouldn't budge, and called their boss, who talked to the inspector, but still wouldn't ok it. So it looks like it needs to be hashed out between National Grid, the inspector, and Tesla. So while my panels are up and connected to the inverter, no more work can be done until it's decided to use the Backup Switch, or adding a Gateway 2, a more involved process. It's always something! (8KW system w/1-PW+ and 1-PW2)

 

[jjrandorin]

I added a little bit of detail to the thread title, because you might be in the first bucket of "new PW+ and PW2" installs. I have not been following the PW+ sticky thread so maybe I am wrong on that.

Can you post a picture of this new backup switch? Is this only with PW+? You mention "adding a gateway 2", so I assume your installation does not include the backup gateway because of the powerwall +?

 

[FurryOne]

Can you post a picture of this new backup switch? Is this only with PW+? You mention "adding a gateway 2", so I assume your installation does not include the backup gateway because of the powerwall +?

SHO-NUFF! Here's a few pictures...

BACKUP GATEWAY - shows the two methods of isolating from the grid - using the Gateway 2, and the Backup Switch.

INSIDE - Shows the circuit board - the Service Meter attaches to this side. (Notice the TESLA trademark on the board!)

BOTTOM - Shows the Conduit Hub connection area, connections, and the Reset Button & Manual override.

REAR - Shows the built-in fan and the lugs that plug into the Service Meter Socket.

CONDUIT HUB - Straight-on view of the connections & button. (Pushing the white button in manually connects you directly to the grid - no touch!)

INFO - Shows the detail on the side of the Backup Switch body.

 

[FurryOne]

Just in case anyone wants to see how they are doing it in NY... 3' between PWs required. That box contains the Backup Switch for now.

 

[jjrandorin]

Let us know how this goes, and thanks for all the detail. This is interesting!

 

[FurryOne]

Let us know how this goes, and thanks for all the detail. This is interesting!

I'm creating my National Grid Voodoo Doll as I type! (Damn,... where'd I put those pins, and that miniature hard hat?...)

 

[holeydonut]

I'm creating my National Grid Voodoo Doll as I type! (Damn,... where'd I put those pins, and that miniature hard hat?...)

You should buy this and set it on fire...

GMC Topkick utility bucket truck NATIONAL GRID

IH utility bucket truck FPL TRUCK UTILITY Diecast model DG Productions Diecast scale models

www.constructionscalemodels.com

BTW, my PG&E voodoo doll didn't work. It just made PG&E get worse. I think PG&E has invested more in blocking the dark arts than they have making sure their power lines don't kill people.

 

[slcasner]

I'm trying to ask PG&E if the Tesla Backup Switch will be allowed. So far I have only received runaround replies.

 

[FurryOne]

You should buy this and set it on fire...

GMC Topkick utility bucket truck NATIONAL GRID

IH utility bucket truck FPL TRUCK UTILITY Diecast model DG Productions Diecast scale models

www.constructionscalemodels.com

Never mind the models,... National Grid has their auction yard only 2 miles away form me (as the crow flies) - I could get a whole line of lift trucks in one shot!

BTW, my PG&E voodoo doll didn't work. It just made PG&E get worse. I think PG&E has invested more in blocking the dark arts than they have making sure their power lines don't kill people.

Why do you think they call it the "Dark" arts?... because they have PG&E for their electricity supplier!

 

[FurryOne]

I'm trying to ask PG&E if the Tesla Backup Switch will be allowed. So far I have only received runaround replies.

The thing that worries me about it is that there's no UL approval code on it - that's the kiss of death for many utilities.

 

[FurryOne]

Here's a configuration page I hadn't seen before. I actually mentions that some Utilities will not approve use of the Tesla Backup Switch, and give alternative configuration examples.

Powerwall System Design | Tesla Support

When designing your system, Tesla will recommend the number of Powerwall units needed to back up your entire home (whole home backup). This means that during a power outage, your Powerwall system would be able to support all your appliances.

www.tesla.com

 

[jjrandorin]

Looks like your easiest path forward would be for tesla to install the gateway for you (hopefully at no additional cost).

 

[holeydonut]

I'm trying to ask PG&E if the Tesla Backup Switch will be allowed. So far I have only received runaround replies.

The closest program PG&E has is the “green meter” where the meter socket is replaced with a contraption that allows solar to back feed directly into the adapter.

https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/services/building-and-renovation/greenbook-manual-online/TD-7001B-007.pdf

Service is limited to 125A and must be underground. Plus the backfeed energy cannot exceed 60A. Plus PG&E owns and installs the adapter.

I’m thinking PG&E is going to say no to this Tesla adapter even if the meter socket is greater than 36 inches from the gas riser.

 

[holeydonut]

Here's a configuration page I hadn't seen before. I actually mentions that some Utilities will not approve use of the Tesla Backup Switch, and give alternative configuration examples.

Powerwall System Design | Tesla Support

When designing your system, Tesla will recommend the number of Powerwall units needed to back up your entire home (whole home backup). This means that during a power outage, your Powerwall system would be able to support all your appliances.

www.tesla.com

unfortunately California loves the integrated meter socket with main panel combo. All these new Tesla designs for whole or partial backup don’t seem to deal with this Cali-weirdness at all unless the gateway persists. And they don’t show all the disconnects heh.

 

[dareed1]

The thing that worries me about it is that there's no UL approval code on it - that's the kiss of death for many utilities.

Really? Both UL and ETL (Intertek) are Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories. How would a utility or AHJ justify requiring UL?

 

[slcasner]

Here's a configuration page I hadn't seen before. I actually mentions that some Utilities will not approve use of the Tesla Backup Switch, and give alternative configuration examples.

Powerwall System Design | Tesla Support

When designing your system, Tesla will recommend the number of Powerwall units needed to back up your entire home (whole home backup). This means that during a power outage, your Powerwall system would be able to support all your appliances.

www.tesla.com

There's a problem with the configuration example for Whole Home Backup with Backup Switch Not Approved. The image shows a combination meter box and main service panel like we have here in California, but the Gateway just has a conduit to the main service panel. It seems unlikely that the large wires from the meter could be redirected to the gateway and then back from the gateway to the main breaker. My understanding is that to do whole house backup in this scenario requires moving all the branch circuits to a new service panel so the feed to the gateway is the only load connection to the old main service panel. A feed from the gateway then goes to the new service panel.

 

[FurryOne]

There's a problem with the configuration example for Whole Home Backup with Backup Switch Not Approved. The image shows a combination meter box and main service panel like we have here in California, but the Gateway just has a conduit to the main service panel. It seems unlikely that the large wires from the meter could be redirected to the gateway and then back from the gateway to the main breaker. My understanding is that to do whole house backup in this scenario requires moving all the branch circuits to a new service panel so the feed to the gateway is the only load connection to the old main service panel. A feed from the gateway then goes to the new service panel.

That sounds like a PIA. Our services use separate outside meter boxes & inside Service Panels, so it's often easy to insert a Gateway between them, but my house is a Tri-Level, which may present a few problems due to the way they were connected.

 

[Krash]

Any update? I have an uninstalled Gateway 2 and would prefer the Backup Switch. Not sure my utility would be more understanding, but I do know who to ask. Incidentally, how does the backup switch talk to the Powerwall? I see that the traditional communication wires don't have to run though the service entrance, since they connector is on the outside of the collar - the communication wires simply run outside of the panel to the collar.

 

[Vines]

I'm trying to ask PG&E if the Tesla Backup Switch will be allowed. So far I have only received runaround replies.

My inquiry went similarly with PGE.

When asking Tesla they are saying it's a much shorter timeframe than I could possibly believe.

You will never guess what Timeframe Tesla indicates for possible PG&E approval of the backup switch.

 

[Vines]

Any update? I have an uninstalled Gateway 2 and would prefer the Backup Switch. Not sure my utility would be more understanding, but I do know who to ask. Incidentally, how does the backup switch talk to the Powerwall? I assume you can't run the traditional communication wires though the service entrance. And if wireless, my guess is that the pre plus Powerwalls can't talk to the switch.

The backup switch has low voltage wiring that will talk to either the Powerwall+, or the Gateway 2