New Southern California edison time of use rates

[miimura]

If your total net usage is below baseline, all time periods will be calculated at Tier 1 rates. Here's a better example:

Baseline: 400kWh
Peak: -100kWh
Off-Peak: 600kWh
Net: 500kWh

Peak is -20% of Net
Off-Peak is 120% of Net

Tier 1 0-400kWh
Tier 2 401-520kWh (130%)

So, the breakdown is:
Tier 1 Peak: -20% * 400 = -80kWh
Tier 1 Off-Peak: 120% * 400 = 480kWh
Tier 2 Peak: -20% * 100 = -20kWh
Tier 2 Off-Peak: 120% * 100 = 120kWh

Clear as mud, right? This is based on the language in PG&E tariffs which is:

On-peak, part-peak, and off-peak usage is assigned to tiers on a pro-rated basis. For example, if twenty percent of a customer’s usage is in the on-peak period, then twenty percent of the total usage in each tier will be treated as on-peak usage.

Since SCE and PG&E are both regulated by the CPUC, I assume the tiering calculations would be done the same way.

 

[sensij]

No, that is not quite right for the SCE TOU-D-T plan. In this plan, there are two tiers... level 1 and level 2. Level 1 covers up to 130% of baseline, Level 2 is above that. I get what you are saying, but I think it is hazardous to assume different plans from different companies behave the same way, even though there are a lot of similarities.

 

[miimura]

No, that is not quite right for the SCE TOU-D-T plan. In this plan, there are two tiers... level 1 and level 2. Level 1 covers up to 130% of baseline, Level 2 is above that. I get what you are saying, but I think it is hazardous to assume different plans from different companies behave the same way, even though there are a lot of similarities.

This is the relevant language in the tariff you linked to:

In order to determine the allocation of baseline kWh to each Time-of-Use (TOU) period, the customer’s baseline allowance for the billing period is first allocated to each TOU period based on the ratio of the metered seasonal kWh in the TOU period to the total metered seasonal kWhs in the billing cycle. TOU kWhs are then assigned to each tier by applying the existing tiering parameters.

My interpretation of this paragraph is exactly the same as tiered allocations that I posted above. Your Level 2 starts at 130% of baseline, not 100%, but that's immaterial to the calculation method.

So, applying the 130% to the baseline first...

Baseline: 308kWh
Peak: -100kWh
Off-Peak: 600kWh
Net: 500kWh

Peak is -20% of Net
Off-Peak is 120% of Net

Level 1 0-400kWh
Level 2 above 400kWh (starting at 130% of baseline)

So, the breakdown is:
Level 1 Peak: -20% * 400 = -80kWh
Level 1 Off-Peak: 120% * 400 = 480kWh
Level 2 Peak: -20% * 100 = -20kWh
Level 2 Off-Peak: 120% * 100 = 120kWh

 

[sensij]

Ok, I found an actual bill posted that helps shed some light on this. Here is what is given:

Baseline allocation = 214.2 kWh
Level 1 allocation (130% of baseline) = 278.4 kWh
Overall net consumption = -118 kWh
Peak: -367 kWh
Off-peak: 249 kWh

To calculate the % of the baseline that gets allocated to each TOU category, the minus sign is dropped.

% allocated to peak = 367 / (367+249) = 0.5958
% allocated to off-peak = 249 / (367+249) = .4042

Therefore, the level 1 allocations are (not sure how the rounding works, but this is what is on the bill)
peak: .5958 * 278.4 = 166 kWh
offpeak: .4042 * 278.4 = 112 kWh

With that figured, the bill then breaks down to
peak, level 1 = -166 kWh
peak, level 2 = (-367--166) = -201 kWh
off-peak, level 1 = 112 kWh
off-peak, level 2 = (249-112) = 137 kWh

 

[sensij]

Just for the sake of completeness, applying this logic to miimura's example
% allocated to peak = 100 / 700 = 14.29%
% allocated to off-peak = 600 / 700 = 85.71%

Level 1 allocation for peak = 1.3 * (.1429 * 308) = 57 kWh
Level 1 allocation for off-peak = 1.3 * (.8571 * 308) = 343 kWh

Therefore, the energy in each billing tier would be:
Peak, Level 1 = -57 Kwh
Peak, Level 2 = -43 kWh
Off-peak, Level 1 = 343 kWh
Off-peak, Level 2 = 257 kWh

 

[mmhendrie]

how does So Cal Edison calculate surplus compensation

Hi all - great thread! I'm in a similar boat to a lot on this thread - I'm a SoCal resident, with Edison, with an EV and solar panels. My issue has been the learning curve - I've only had the EV since November, and my solar system just went active last week. I'd switched to TOU with Edison in December, and immediately found savings, as I was a low electricity user pre-EV, half of my energy usage was charging the EV, so it was a no-brainer to take advantage of the super off-peak charging. As with others on this thread, I'm pretty certain the new TOU-A plan will be best for me.

I'm hoping to get some input from Edison customers who've had their solar panels in place for more then a year, and generated net surplus' in the past. I'm interested in how Edison calculate the compensation for surplus generation. I've scoured Edison's website, but I often find conflicting statements (which sometimes I feel may be deliberate), and I'm struggling to understand how the compensation for surplus generation works.

My understanding is that each kwH i generate essentially builds a credit with Edison, that is at the same rate as the TOU would have billed me, had I used that kwH instead of procued it. So, if I were to generate 1 kwH in summer, peak time, on TOU-A, i believe that'd be a credit of $0.40. Not insignificant, and as I generate far more during peak times than I use, this could be highly beneficial. My panels also face west, so I find myself in a position to potentially benefit more from the new on-peak times. The specific area I'm not understanding, is what happens after the 12 months period, if I have a significant surplus generated....

To create a very basic example - excluding taxes, fees, etc., just to look at kwH generation/use for the sake of ease, not varying winter/summer rates etc:
-Over 12 months, I generation 5000kwH of all on-peak electricity, at $0.40kwH, I get a credit of $2000
-Over 12 months I use 5000kwH of all super off-peak electricity at $0.11kwh, I'm billed $550
-I am therefore left with a credit of $1450 - which I can rollover to the next period, of get a check cut for?

If that correct? What I'd read in terms of understanding how my production vs. usage is credited sent me down that road. But then yesterday I was reading a NEM FAQ page on Edison's website, and found a net surplus compensation table:
https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home...QtqQyeQFqHLrjg!!/dl4/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/

This seems to paint a very different (and far less lucrative) picture of how surplus compensation is calculated. I know this stuff varies greatly between utility companies - so can anyone who's had experience of this with So Cal Edison chime in on how it actually works/their experiences etc.?

thanks in advance,
Matthew

 

[AEdennis]

mmhendrie. Any surplus credit you earn from TOU gets flushed out at the end of the year. You only get paid out at the wholesale rate if your ACTUAL kWh of energy produced is greater than the ACTUAL kWh of energy consumed.

So, the only way to get a check is to use less than what is produced by your panels. And the power is paid out not at peak production, but at the wholesale rate, which is lower.

My first year, I had a credit imbalance to the tune of a few hundred bucks that was because I used more at Super Off Peak than at standard periods... Since then I just use power when it's convenient for me.

 

[fengshui]

You have it mostly right. Using your example, your bill will be credited at $0.40/kWh for exported generation throughout the year. At the annual true-up, if your credit exceeds your billed usage, then you pay $0. However, you will not receive a check for the credit on your bill based on the TOU rates. Any bill credit is lost. The only way you get a check is if you generate more kWh than you consume over the entire year. If that's the case, you receive a check based on the net generation, times the ~$0.045/kWh rate.

Under current rules, residential solar generation will never be lucrative beyond the elimination of your regular electric bill.

 

[mmhendrie]

ok thanks - so if i'm understanding this correctly, under my 'created 5000kwh, used 5000kwh' scenario, despite generating at peak times and establishing a significant credit, that disappears at the end of 12months, as it reverts to kwH production vs. use, and i've used exactly what I generated, so $0 bill, $0 credit.

Now, just for the sake of argument, if I were to:
Produce 5000kwH, all on-peak, $0.40kwH, generate a credit of $2000
Use 2000kwH, all super-off peak, $0.11, generate a charge of $220
Through the year, I'd have a credit of $1780 - BUT, come the end of 12 months, and 'pay day', that $1780 goes away, and instead, I've generated a net surplus of 3000kwH over the year. I then get approx. $0.045 per kwH - so $135 credit. Do I have that about right?
-Matthew

 

[fengshui]

Yep, mmhendrie, that's basically it. It would be hard to end up in that situation, as SCE won't generally approve an installation where the installed capacity is well above historical use, but it can happen if your usage changes after installation.

 

[mmhendrie]

thanks very much! I think I understand how it works now. Now, let me reverse this around - lets say:

-I produce 5000kwH in a year on-peak, $0.40kwh, that's a credit of $2000
-I use 7000kwh in a year, super off peak, $0.11kwh, that's a bill of $770

I'd be left with a credit of $1230. But, after the 12 month period, the credit goes away and we go back to kwH produced vs used - I've now used 2000kwH more then I'm used? What happens? Am I billed for the 2000kwH, and if so, at what rate?

thanks!!
Matthew

 

[mdemetri]

In that case the credit remains and your bill is 0.

 

[mmhendrie]

ok, so if you play the TOU game well, you could actually use significantly more energy then you produce, and still end up not paying anything more to Edison?

 

[mdemetri]

Yes, but the new TOU plans have been tilted more towards Edison; so you will need to be closer in energy use to amount generated than in the past to not pay.

 

[Ampster]

ok, so if you play the TOU game well, you could actually use significantly more energy then you produce, and still end up not paying anything more to Edison?

Yes, that is exactly what happened to me last February 2014. I was a net consumer of kWhs. I had a credit of dollars becaused I shifted much of my consumption to the super off peak periods. Most of my generation credit was at high rates. The dollar credit washed out against the net kWh consumed.

The new rates make it harder to do that but my goal is merely to breakeven.

 

[mmhendrie]

great - good to know. I know my system is built for my usage, so i'm not 'expecting' much more then I use. I've only been live a few days, and with the mini-heat wave i'm not sure they can really be considered representative. That said, I typically consume 16-18kwH per day, and the last 4 days since i went live, the panels have produced 22-24kwh - so i was just interested in understanding more if i do become a net producer. As with the new peak hours slanted to the afternoon, the fact that my panels face west might be a pickup also.

 

[jstepy]

mmhendrie - yeh don't count on the big credit check from Edison. After my first 12 months with panels I had a credit of 370 plus bucks... I think SCE sent me a check for something like 33 bucks. It's pretty lame.

 

[mdemetri]

Has anyone that was on the old TOU-D-TEV plan been switched over to one of the new plans? The letter I got from SCE ~1 month ago said that I would be switched April 1 but I just checked the website and I am still on the old TOU-D-TEV plan.

I had petitioned CPUC to grandfather in those who were already on the TOU-D-TEV plan. I have yet to hear back from them either way and wonder if this lack of change is related. Likely wishful thinking on my part.

 

[jstepy]

Has anyone that was on the old TOU-D-TEV plan been switched over to one of the new plans? The letter I got from SCE ~1 month ago said that I would be switched April 1 but I just checked the website and I am still on the old TOU-D-TEV plan.

I had petitioned CPUC to grandfather in those who were already on the TOU-D-TEV plan. I have yet to hear back from them either way and wonder if this lack of change is related. Likely wishful thinking on my part.

I was switched just a couple days ago... So far it's ok but it still irks me that I'm losing out on some good peak production hours now.

 

[mdemetri]

I was switched just a couple days ago... So far it's ok but it still irks me that I'm losing out on some good peak production hours now.

Thanks jstepy. Any guess on how much less credit you are getting than you would of on the old plan?

I just checked again, and I am still on the old TOU-D-TEV plan. Not sure why we would be different.