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New Southern California edison time of use rates

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They moved me to TOU-D-A at my billing cycle on 3-21. I am seriously looking into a battery backed system using a grid tied inverter. I have 10kWh of batteries sitting in a VW that I converted a few years ago. All I need is the inverter to power the 800 watts of fixed loads that I have every hour. I got my inspiration from WK057's thread about using a Tesla pack.
I can save over $500 per year shaving those kWhs off the peak rates and recharging my batteries at the super off peak rate of $0.11/kWhr.
 
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I grabbed a document from SoCal Edison about the new rates. If you want to search for it, it's called
"PEV_NEM_FAQs+v3_EP". Here's an excerpt from it:

Net Consumer of Electricity
When you are a net consumer for the month (i.e., you consume more electricity from SCE than you export to the grid), a portion of your energy charges will be lowered through the baseline credit applied monthly on a $per kWh basis. For example:
· If a customer has a Baseline Allocation of 500 kWh/month and their net kWh (consumption from SCE minus exported generation) for the month is 750 kWh, the customer will receive 10 cents per kWh credit up to the 500 kWh Baseline amount, equal to a $50 credit.
· If a customer has a Baseline Allocation of 500 kWh/month and their net kWh for the month is 250 kWh, the customer will receive 10 cents per kWh credit up to the net 250 kWh, equal to a $25 credit.
Net Generator of Electricity
When you are a net generator for the month (i.e., you export more electricity than you consume from SCE that month), the Baseline Credit will appear as a monthly charge since you are multiplying a negative kWh amount by a negative billing factor. This is necessary to ensure that you receive the same rate for the exported kWh that you would have received if you had consumed that same kWh from SCE.
For example, if a customer has a Baseline Allocation of 500 kWh/month, and their net kWh for the month is -100 kWh (exported generation is greater than consumption from SCE), the customer’s bill will reflect a 10 cents per kWh charge up to the net -100 kWh of generation, which results in a $10 charge.
Note: The Baseline Allocation varies by Baseline Region. You can learn your specific region and allocation by calling us at 1-800-655-4555 and asking an SCE representative.

To me, this last section looks like a penalty or charge for being connected to the grid. If that's the case, I'll be looking for a battery backup solution soon.
Does that seem like the correct way to interpret it?

 
To me, this last section looks like a penalty or charge for being connected to the grid. If that's the case, I'll be looking for a battery backup solution soon.
Does that seem like the correct way to interpret it?


I don't think so, as I don't think this can result in an actual charge to you in any scenario. The baseline allocation is a non-intuitive way to create a simple tiering system. In the old models, there were two tiers. SCE would credit/charge you a low rate for the first XXX kWh net produced/consumed in a month as part of tier 1, then credit/charge a higher rate for all production/consumption after tier 1 was exhausted. In the new system, there's just one tier. All power generated or consumed is credited or charged at the same rate (based on Time-of-Use and Season). The baseline allocation credit/debit effectively creates a tier 1 for users wherein the rates are $0.10/kWh less than normal. As such, you'll never actually pay the penalty or charge, your power credit/debit will just be reduced by about 20% for the first XXX kWh you produce or consume each month.
 
In your example XXX represents the baseline allocation, which is different for each region. I see what you are saying about a non intuitive tier structure. I haven't fully digested the effect this might have on home battery strategies, ie. TBA Tesla Stionary Storage. Any thoughts? I am particularly interested in the scenerio where one consumes more kWhs but has a $ credit.
 
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The baseline allocation credit/debit effectively creates a tier 1 for users wherein the rates are $0.10/kWh less than normal. As such, you'll never actually pay the penalty or charge, your power credit/debit will just be reduced by about 20% for the first XXX kWh you produce or consume each month.

Thank you for the clarification. I still think I'll do a battery backup system in the long run, but it seems less urgent now.

Also, from reading through this thread, it's clear that going solar and having a BEV means you deal more in virtual dollars than real ones when reading your SCE bill.
 
In your example XXX represents the baseline allocation, which is different for each region. I see what you are saying about a non intuitive tier structure. I haven't fully digested the effect this might have on home battery strategies, ie. TBA Tesla Stionary Storage. Any thoughts? I am particularly interested in the scenerio where one consumes more kWhs but has a $ credit.

Well, with home battery systems, there are two thoughts I have. One is permits, building codes and Net Metering. We don't know how local planning agencies are going to look at battery backup systems. They should be fine by the NEC, but it will certainly be an interesting ride for early adopters. In addition, SCE may try to prevent homes with battery backups from using Net Metering. I found this article from 2013, but don't know what the situation is today: Solar Energy Battery Backup Under Attack in California?

My second thought is that the effectiveness of a home battery system will be largely driven by the intelligence of the software driving the system. If you can program in detailed rate schedules, such that you export to the grid only during the highest rate periods or when your batteries are full, I think they could be very helpful. If not, then the question becomes, do you take the risk of going completely off-grid?

I expect that for anyone who can get into the current Net Metering program before it closes in 2017, battery storage will probably not break even versus grid, but it could change. A lot of power cost projections are based on the anomalous increase in rates over the last 20 years. If rate increases revert to the mean and only go up at about inflation over the next 20 years, existing commodity solutions will probably be sufficient for most home users.

Also, from reading through this thread, it's clear that going solar and having a BEV means you deal more in virtual dollars than real ones when reading your SCE bill.

Certainly you have large numbers on both sides of the equation. Hopefully those virtual dollars average out over the year to about zero, but a small bill at the annual true-up is probably preferred versus buying additional panels to generate those first billed kWhs.
 
I have been thinking a lot about battery energy storage lately. I think the best approach for those that already have grid interconnected solar is to arrange the battery and inverter system so that the battery energy can never flow back to the grid. In my home, most of my household loads are connected to a 125A sub-panel in our laundry room. The main panel feeds the sub-panel, my two 14-50 outlets in the garage for EV charging, the A/C units (compressors not installed), two 20A 240V micro-inverter solar circuits, and one or two electric tile floor heaters. If I were to put the battery and inverter system between the main panel and the sub-panel, the entire sub-panel would be powered by what amounted to a giant UPS. A sophisticated inverter system like the Outback Radian can be connected so that it only draws power from the grid for powering loads or charging batteries, not grid interactive like a normal grid connected solar inverter. This arrangement should not require utility approval because it cannot back-feed the grid.

With some code and a home energy monitoring system, you could implement a system to charge the battery from solar energy at Part-Peak times (times with solar production but with less than Peak electricity rates) while disconnecting the battery from the grid and solar at Peak times and powering loads from the battery exclusively. That would leave the solar production during Peak times to flow back into the grid for maximum bill credit. If the battery state of charge was sufficient, the battery could continue to power loads until the Off-Peak period started. During Off-Peak, the battery could be slowly charged to a minimum start-of-day charge level, then waiting for the solar to start up and resume charging at a level equal to the surplus solar production.

When I get some free time I will probably run a simulation on my SmartMeter data to analyze the flow of energy through the various TOU periods to see how big of a battery would be required to implement this strategy. Well, actually, I would probably have to figure out how to extract the time interval production data from Enphase Enlighten so that I could separate usage from production. The SmartMeter data available from the utility only indicates the net usage.
 
Thank you both for some good information. I am looking into the Outback Radian inverter and I believe it will do what Mimura is thinking about. I have about 500 to 1000 watts of continuos loads that I am moving to a separate sub panel. These would also be the critical loads that I would want to run from battery in the event of a blackout, but that is a rare ocrrence here. The Radian the ability to power these loads during the peak times and I could charge the batteries during the super off peak rates. No connection to the grid would be necessary, therefore no approval from SCE. My little beach town has a carbon neutral goal so as long as I am compliant with NEC. I should have no problem getting a building permit.
 
I bought a Radian inverter and have installed it. At the same time I have looked into IRS regulations regarding the 30% tax credit if the inverter and batteries are part of a solar PV system. In simple terms the credit is available if the tax payer uses solar power to charge the batteries. I think this would eliminate the tax credit for a tier shaving scheme. Depending on your cost of capital, this could change the payback.

Since this is partly a hobby exercise for me the above may not matter. I have located an inexpensive source for about 15kWhs of LiFePo batteries which I am picking up next week.

BTW I got my bill under the new rate. I moved to TOU-D-A and my credit got bigger. This may have partly been a result of the past 30 days being a great month for Solar (clear skies and cool weather).
 
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So I gathered the new https://www.sce.com/wps/wcm/connect...263b0b4e1/PEV_NEM_FAQs+v3_EP.docx?MOD=AJPERES rate is no good?

The new Residential Time-of-Use Plan, TOU-D, was introduced January 1, 2015 to replace our Home & Electric Vehicle Plan, TOU-D-TEV. Current TOU-D-TEV customers will be transitioned to the new rate during March and April 2015. You can decide to remain on this new plan, or switch to another rate plan of your choice.

What is the cause around their new Electric Vehicle Plan that uses a second meter? They will install a second meter for free but you have to folk thousands on an electrician to get it setup for your house? Dang for a Tesla lease, the gas saving end up costing more lol

So for a guy who current electric bill pre-TESLA average 80-90 per month, now with Tesla should change it to this TOU-D plan or leave it the way it is?
 
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If you have a Telsa but no solar generation, the TOU-D plan is fine. Just try to minimize your power use between 2pm and 8pm, and you'll be fine.

The TOU-D plan is a step down for customers with an EV and solar generation, but honestly, the old TOU-D-TEV rate was very generous, and I expected it to go away at some point anyways.
 
We just took delivery of our incredible inventory P85D on July 31st, contacted SCE's SCE Home Fuel Advisors at 1-800-4EV-INFO immediately and ordered a FREE rate analysis between our existing Domestic-SDP and TOU-D-SDP. Analysis arrived via Snail Mail on Monday showing TOU-D-DSP should save us $236 a year based on our historical usage. Switched to TOU-D-SDP (Time of Use + Summer Discount Plan) today (Tuesday) which unfortunately won't take effect until our next billing cycle begins (Thursday). RECOMMEND YOU SWITCH TO TOU-D-SDP A MONTH BEFORE YOU TAKE DELIVERY OF YOUR TESLAedso you don't get spanked on your initial Tesla recharging at your current SCE rate.

new SCE Residential Time-of-Use Plan
On-Peak: 2 p.m. - 8 p.m. Summer: 35¢ Winter: 25¢
Off-Peak: 8 p.m. - 10 p.m. AND 8 a.m. - 2 p.m. Summer: 18¢ Winter: 14¢
Super Off-Peak: 10 p.m. - 8 a.m. 11¢
+ $16 per month TOU surcharge

Summer Jun 1 - Sept 30
Winter Oct 1 - May 31

I recharged my P85D from 30 miles to 229 miles range at 40A using our Tesla High Power Wall Charger starting at 12 midnight which completed about 7:15 a.m. Yes I've recharged in half the time at 80A using our HPWC but both the HWPC plug & HWPC stainless steel cover got very hot... and the P85D batteries supposedly will last longer with slower charging... so I'll only charge at 80A when I need a quick home recharge.

FYI the SDP refers to SCE's Summer Discount Plan which dramatically cuts our summer (which SCE defines as Jun 1 through Sept 30) by allowing SCE to shut down our A/Cs for up to 6 hours a day (rarely 6 hours... typically 2 PM to 6PM) during “energy events” SCE may call during periods of high electricity demand (which they notify us the day before), or emergencies. Since we live near the ocean, this is easy for us since we typically only use our ACs four days a year. Since SCE gives us advance notice, we simply "pre-cool" our house at night & early morning with outside air and if necessary run our ACs until 2 PM. AWESOME program which lowers our Summer SCE bills below our Winter bills. Awesome!

Here are SCE's webpages for:

TOU-D:
https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/rates/residential-rates/!ut

SDP:
https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/rebates-savings/summer-discount-plan/

2015 Pearl White inventory P85D
a.k.a. Pegasus (color / option combo SO rare it was a "unicorn" per our AWESOME Sales Associate)
every option except rear facing seats including rear Next Generation seats
 
Yeah. It's not a bad plan. For those of us with PV solar, it's clearly worse than the previous plan, due to the change in peak times (10am-6pm -> 2pm-8pm), and the reduction in rate for peak times ($.47/kWh peak summer-> $.37/kWh peak summer), but it's still better than straight schedule D. I try to get my family to use less power in the evening and at dinner time, but it's hard, so we pay more with the peak rates going until 8pm. Ahh well.
 
I highly recommend if you have Edison either tou or tier plan you look into this pilot. This will get you separate EV meter rates without the huge cost of paying for a second meter to be installed, your rates for the car go down to 5 cents kwh on super off peak instead of the 11 cents. 11 cents the remainder of the time. The Pilot ends 8/31.

https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home...r9pTIt4B8sQsyQ!!/dl4/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/