New Supercharger expansion model?

[Garlan Garner]

I have exactly zero intention of flying domestically (short of an emergency in the winter months, and even then I'd consider buying snow tires or *twitch* chains). In general, if I can drive to wherever, I'm driving. Does it take longer, yes. But as long as I have the opportunities to drive versus fly, I'd rather spend a couple days in the car than the better part of a day getting to/from and waiting in lines at an airport.

Not to mention the conditions onboard most commercial flights. And nothing against first class or fractional chartered travel, but I'm just far too Scottish to spend thousands for domestic travel.

I understand, however I'm not driving from Chicago to California. If my only recourse was driving....I would never see California unless I take the train or have someone drive me - very fast...lol. People who would drive to California or long distances mostly make the journey their vacation. I have always assumed that arriving at my destination starts my vacation.

 

[callmesam]

I understand and partially agree.

The predominant reason people fly is for speed. Speed is amazingly attractive to more people since more people fly than drive. That's a definite fact.

I would suppose that people will Continue to pay for flying even if driving is free. Time is more valuable to those who can afford to fly.
If I can be in DC in 45 minutes @ $120 rather than driving for 7 hours for free - I would pay the $120. Because I won't miss the $120. I can afford it.

You can't be in DC in 45 minutes. You can however, drive to the airport and arrive at least 90 minutes early to fly ~2 hours and then drive from the DC area airports to your ultimate destination. Elapsed time 5 hours.

However the better question is do drive or fly for corner cases? In my case, I can either drive or fly to Las Vegas from Los Angeles. I have flown many times, but since I purchased my Tesla, I have exclusively driven. 45 minute flight + 90 minute early arrival + transportation to and from the airport. 3-4 hours is typical from my door to hotel check in. I've made this trip about 2 dozen times since I purchased my Model S.

Same with Los Angeles to San Francisco. Easily drivable. Easily flyable. The flight is only an hour, but with security and then taking a train or taxi into the city, then your travel is more like 3-4 hours, whereas the drive is about double that. I have made this driving trip 8 times since I made my last Bay Area flight into San Jose for my Fremont factory pickup.

So while your point about multi-thousand mile trips being more convenient in an airplane is correct, it doesn't address that regional trips by plane may be displaced by FREE FOR LIFE supercharging road trips.

It definitely has for me.

 

[Bimbels]

I understand and partially agree.

The predominant reason people fly is for speed. Speed is amazingly attractive to more people since more people fly than drive. That's a definite fact.

I would suppose that people will Continue to pay for flying even if driving is free. Time is more valuable to those who can afford to fly.
If I can be in DC in 45 minutes @ $120 rather than driving for 7 hours for free - I would pay the $120. Because I won't miss the $120. I can afford it.

You're not considering all types of travel. Yes, I think most people would fly to FL from ORD to save time and begin their vacation. But there is plenty of regional travel to be done - and sometimes driving makes more sense. Having money to fly or not has nothing to do with it. Sometimes people are going to places regionally not near an airport. I could fly to say, Burlington VT from Boston - but I'd have to drive 1.5hrs to BOS, pay an arm and a leg to park, take a 30 minute flight, rent a car when I get there, and then do the same to get home. Or I could drive 6 hours and get there. And it's a pretty drive and I can hit the NH liquor stores.

I fly for free because I work for an airline. But I don't fly everywhere because sometimes it doesn't make sense. If you're talking a longer trip - then sure. But if it's under a 6 hour drive, and I needed/wanted a car at my destination, then I'd probably just drive. And I would need superchargers for that.

 

[TaoJones]

I vote for Cracker Barrels. That would be perfect.

Yanno, I have never been to a Cracker Barrel. Many Waffle Houses, just because they're the health food choice of the South *ducks*, but haven't done the Cracker Barrel thing yet. What's good there?

I understand and partially agree.

The predominant reason people fly is for speed. Speed is amazingly attractive to more people since more people fly than drive. That's a definite fact.

I would suppose that people will Continue to pay for flying even if driving is free. Time is more valuable to those who can afford to fly.
If I can be in DC in 45 minutes @ $120 rather than driving for 7 hours for free - I would pay the $120. Because I won't miss the $120. I can afford it.

Except it's not 45 minutes. I used to fly a *lot* before 9/11. Like every week or two. You quite literally couldn't pay me enough to do that today. And I have a Sentri pass. These days, that 45-minute flight takes 4-6 hours door to door - it's just gotten ridiculous, and it's not going to get better anytime soon.

While I readily grant that plenty of people's circumstances relegate them to the abyss that is commercial air travel nowadays, I ain't one of them and it's due in large measure because driving regionally in a Tesla just makes sense.

When the Hyperloop facilitates transcontinental travel in less time than it takes to fly, I could be convinced - but only if I can rent a Tesla at the other end.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Yanno, I have never been to a Cracker Barrel. Many Waffle Houses, just because they're the health food choice of the South *ducks*, but haven't done the Cracker Barrel thing yet. What's good there?


Except it's not 45 minutes. I used to fly a *lot* before 9/11. Like every week or two. You quite literally couldn't pay me enough to do that today. And I have a Sentri pass. These days, that 45-minute flight takes 4-6 hours door to door - it's just gotten ridiculous, and it's not going to get better anytime soon.

While I readily grant that plenty of people's circumstances relegate them to the abyss that is commercial air travel nowadays, I ain't one of them and it's due in large measure because driving regionally in a Tesla just makes sense.

When the Hyperloop facilitates transcontinental travel in less time than it takes to fly, I could be convinced - but only if I can rent a Tesla at the other end.

if you want to remember what it was like pre-9/11...watch any of those sappy 80s movies where the guy goes to the airport to profess his love to the woman of his dreams at the last minute before she flies off to wherever.....

would never happen nowadays.


It almost used to be like a train. You'd walk right in and if you had no bags to check, head straight to the gate, check in there, and get on the plane 5 minutes later.

 

[evjc]

The fly vs drive choice will vary depending on one's needs and preferences.
Personally, I would prefer to drive my model S in *MOST* circumstances as I despise the BS that is TSA at airports. For me the main limiting factor for some destinations is the relative lack of superchargers in several parts of the central US where I might want to drive.

 

[Red Sage]

it is kind of ironic, that the "I am here to save the world" EV driver is actually sharing the roads with hundreds of thousands of other smoke belching smelly gas cars and trucks every day, but somehow feels repugnant charging at a gas station. Give me a break...

No... Give ME a break. Gas stations have always been repugnant to me. Vehicles belching fire and smoke have always been repugnant to me. Loud, boisterous, rumbling engines have always disturbed me. ALWAYS. This isn't something new. Keep in mind I am absolutely a 'Car Guy'. My attitude has nothing whatsoever to do with 'saving the world', though I think that would be nice, too. To me, it just seems like good ol' plain common sense that burning things and making smoke to have transportation cannot possibly be the BEST way of doing things. It absolutely surprises me every time an ICE doesn't explode on me. I consider high performance ICE vehicles to be extremely inefficient, highly dangerous modes of transportation -- and they are.

I love cars because I love driving, and I like going fast. I love cars because of the beauty they convey in design and engineering. But I have never, ever, EVER liked the compromises that were necessary (?) to accomplish those feats.

I loved my Uncles, even though they were drinkers and smokers. They were great guys. But now they are dead -- because they were drinkers and smokers. Does this mean that I should become a drinker or a smoker? [HECK], no.

I like my women the same way I like my cars: beautiful, fast, smart, and not blowing smoke.

 

[Garlan Garner]

You're not considering all types of travel. Yes, I think most people would fly to FL from ORD to save time and begin their vacation. But there is plenty of regional travel to be done - and sometimes driving makes more sense. Having money to fly or not has nothing to do with it. Sometimes people are going to places regionally not near an airport. I could fly to say, Burlington VT from Boston - but I'd have to drive 1.5hrs to BOS, pay an arm and a leg to park, take a 30 minute flight, rent a car when I get there, and then do the same to get home. Or I could drive 6 hours and get there. And it's a pretty drive and I can hit the NH liquor stores.

I fly for free because I work for an airline. But I don't fly everywhere because sometimes it doesn't make sense. If you're talking a longer trip - then sure. But if it's under a 6 hour drive, and I needed/wanted a car at my destination, then I'd probably just drive. And I would need superchargers for that.

ditto...I don't fly everywhere either, because as you say...it does not make sense in some cases. However, flying is always my first thought.
Let me put it this way....If I have to plan a route that uses 2 superchargers....then I'm flying. If I start out fully charged ( 200 miles ) then I SC for another 200 miles.....then I will have to be at my destination by then. Otherwise I'm calling my TA and let her set everything up. Limo and all.

Just my preference.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yanno, I have never been to a Cracker Barrel. Many Waffle Houses, just because they're the health food choice of the South *ducks*, but haven't done the Cracker Barrel thing yet. What's good there?
.

Hey .... I forgot about Waffle Houses.

I vote for every Waffle House and Cracker Barrel to have SC's.

 

[callmesam]

No... Give ME a break. Gas stations have always been repugnant to me. Vehicles belching fire and smoke have always been repugnant to me. Loud, boisterous, rumbling engines have always disturbed me. ALWAYS. This isn't something new. Keep in mind I am absolutely a 'Car Guy'. My attitude has nothing whatsoever to do with 'saving the world', though I think that would be nice, too. To me, it just seems like good ol' plain common sense that burning things and making smoke to have transportation cannot possibly be the BEST way of doing things. It absolutely surprises me every time an ICE doesn't explode on me. I consider high performance ICE vehicles to be extremely inefficient, highly dangerous modes of transportation -- and they are.

I love cars because I love driving, and I like going fast. I love cars because of the beauty they convey in design and engineering. But I have never, ever, EVER liked the compromises that were necessary (?) to accomplish those feats.

I loved my Uncles, even though they were drinkers and smokers. They were great guys. But now they are dead -- because they were drinkers and smokers. Does this mean that I should become a drinker or a smoker? [HECK], no.

I like my women the same way I like my cars: beautiful, fast, smart, and not blowing smoke.

I'm usually in agreement @Red Sage but in this case, there are very few options in rural areas where Superchargers fit. Few 24 hour locations. More important than my agreement about the distate I feel for ICE cars and their fueling stations, is my overwhelming desire to see ubiquitous Superchargers in all 50 states, all 196 Nations States (including Taiwan and Vatican City). In order to displace gas, there has to be a plan that builds allies and more importantly, bridges the next 20 year transition from gas to electric.

Putting Superchargers in locations with gas stations ONLY is beyond stupid. Putting Superchargers in locations with food, coffee and bathrooms that ALSO has gas is Super-Smart.

Elon's goal is the transition to sustainable transport, which won't come quickly without willing partners.

Thanks for Sheetz and Ruby Tuesday's, Chili's, Best Western, Outlet Malls, Restaurants, Grocery Stores, Hy Vee . . .

 

[Garlan Garner]

You're not considering all types of travel. Yes, I think most people would fly to FL from ORD to save time and begin their vacation. But there is plenty of regional travel to be done - and sometimes driving makes more sense. Having money to fly or not has nothing to do with it. Sometimes people are going to places regionally not near an airport. I could fly to say, Burlington VT from Boston - but I'd have to drive 1.5hrs to BOS, pay an arm and a leg to park, take a 30 minute flight, rent a car when I get there, and then do the same to get home. Or I could drive 6 hours and get there. And it's a pretty drive and I can hit the NH liquor stores.

I fly for free because I work for an airline. But I don't fly everywhere because sometimes it doesn't make sense. If you're talking a longer trip - then sure. But if it's under a 6 hour drive, and I needed/wanted a car at my destination, then I'd probably just drive. And I would need superchargers for that.

I fully understand what you are saying, however as long as I don't have to drive or wait in line......I'm good. I get a limo (sleep) to ORD or MDW and swish right through TSA to the gate. Its great.
But that's not the great part of it for me. The great part is coming back home. When I'm done with my vacation ( cruise ) I WANT TO BE HOME. I would hate spending the last day of a cruise dreading the 15-20 drive ahead of me.

 

[diamond.g]

Yanno, I have never been to a Cracker Barrel. Many Waffle Houses, just because they're the health food choice of the South *ducks*, but haven't done the Cracker Barrel thing yet. What's good there?


Except it's not 45 minutes. I used to fly a *lot* before 9/11. Like every week or two. You quite literally couldn't pay me enough to do that today. And I have a Sentri pass. These days, that 45-minute flight takes 4-6 hours door to door - it's just gotten ridiculous, and it's not going to get better anytime soon.

While I readily grant that plenty of people's circumstances relegate them to the abyss that is commercial air travel nowadays, I ain't one of them and it's due in large measure because driving regionally in a Tesla just makes sense.

When the Hyperloop facilitates transcontinental travel in less time than it takes to fly, I could be convinced - but only if I can rent a Tesla at the other end.

Could always try a private jet charter...

 

[gregincal]

I understand, however I'm not driving from Chicago to California. If my only recourse was driving....I would never see California unless I take the train or have someone drive me - very fast...lol. People who would drive to California or long distances mostly make the journey their vacation. I have always assumed that arriving at my destination starts my vacation.

That presumes you have a single place that is your destination. I suppose some people travel that way, but not me. I multiple week trips where I change places every second or third day. I get quickly bored staying in one place. If I fly somewhere I'm almost always renting a car at the destination and putting the miles on. I'd prefer to drive my Tesla from home rather than driving a rental car for a couple weeks if possible.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I travel down to Mississippi 2 times a year and dread the 10.5 hour drive. There is NOTHING but corn to look at.

One great delight is that I saw about 10 SC's in Effingham IL when I stopped there. I rent an ICE Minivan when I make that trip because of the "quick refueling" convenience of gas.

If I drove my S down there....I would dread the 1-2 hour wait for charging. Maybe one day we can fully charge a Tesla in 15 minutes. That's still slower than ICE, however I would then consider driving a Tesla down there.

I also suppose that if I considered driving to Mississippi a 2 day journey ( in my mind ) then it would not be that bad either. By the way....there aren't hardly any SC's in Mississippi.

 

[Garlan Garner]

That presumes you have a single place that is your destination. I suppose some people travel that way, but not me. I multiple week trips where I change places every second or third day. I get quickly bored staying in one place. If I fly somewhere I'm almost always renting a car at the destination and putting the miles on. I'd prefer to drive my Tesla from home rather than driving a rental car for a couple weeks if possible.

Ok...vote is now at 3.

 

[Garlan Garner]

That presumes you have a single place that is your destination. I suppose some people travel that way, but not me. I multiple week trips where I change places every second or third day. I get quickly bored staying in one place. If I fly somewhere I'm almost always renting a car at the destination and putting the miles on. I'd prefer to drive my Tesla from home rather than driving a rental car for a couple weeks if possible.

If everything between ICE and Tesla (EV) were the same.....I would do the same as you, however its not. Finding a SC would draw me off the beaten path when taking the trips that I take.
As I have said many times. My time is worth much more than my money.....because I've been blessed to be able to afford to say that.

 

[Bimbels]

I travel down to Mississippi 2 times a year and dread the 10.5 hour drive. There is NOTHING but corn to look at.

One great delight is that I saw about 10 SC's in Effingham IL when I stopped there. I rent an ICE Minivan when I make that trip because of the "quick refueling" convenience of gas.

If I drove my S down there....I would dread the 1-2 hour wait for charging. Maybe one day we can fully charge a Tesla in 15 minutes. That's still slower than ICE, however I would then consider driving a Tesla down there.

I also suppose that if I considered driving to Mississippi a 2 day journey ( in my mind ) then it would not be that bad either. By the way....there aren't hardly any SC's in Mississippi.

While I would also dread that drive for the boredom factor - you will see once you get the hang of supercharging that you don't typically charge for 1-2 hours unless you have to, or want to. You typically would stop for 15-30 minutes, enough to get to the next, or perhaps the second next supercharger. You use that time to stretch, get a coffee, use the loo, check your Tesla Forums. Longer stops are timed for sit down meals. Charging full, or 90%, when you don't need to because there is another SC upcoming, is a waste of time overall. It's not as onerous as you are expecting. You might actually enjoy it on that boring drive because if you're lucky there is interesting stuff to eat/do near the supercharger. (Like when I stop at the ones in NH, which are conveniently located at rest areas with the NH liquor stores - a destination themselves. )

And that is at current charge rate and SC density, which will only improve.

 

[gregincal]

If everything between ICE and Tesla (EV) were the same.....I would do the same as you, however its not. Finding a SC would draw me off the beaten path when taking the trips that I take.
As I have said many times. My time is worth much more than my money.....because I've been blessed to be able to afford to say that.

Sure, and after much debate we took my wife's CRV rather than our Model S for our recent tour around the northern California mountains. But that's what this thread is about, how can we have greater availability of superchargers spread around (just more destination chargers would have helped in my case).

 

[survivor]

I vote for Cracker Barrels. That would be perfect.

Cracker Barrel has already been partnering with NRG EVGo in Tennessee and Texas. Not sure on the details of the agreement, but I think Nissan may also be involved due to their HQ now being in Tennessee. Anyhow, I believe most locations in those states have some mix of J plugs and CHAdeMO chargers. Not sure if Tesla could silk their way in, but it probably depends on how involved Nissan is.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I'm usually in agreement @Red Sage but in this case, there are very few options in rural areas where Superchargers fit. Few 24 hour locations. More important than my agreement about the distate I feel for ICE cars and their fueling stations, is my overwhelming desire to see ubiquitous Superchargers in all 50 states, all 196 Nations States (including Taiwan and Vatican City). In order to displace gas, there has to be a plan that builds allies and more importantly, bridges the next 20 year transition from gas to electric.

Putting Superchargers in locations with gas stations ONLY is beyond stupid. Putting Superchargers in locations with food, coffee and bathrooms that ALSO has gas is Super-Smart.

Elon's goal is the transition to sustainable transport, which won't come quickly without willing partners.

Thanks for Sheetz and Ruby Tuesday's, Chili's, Best Western, Outlet Malls, Restaurants, Grocery Stores, Hy Vee . . .

to be fair, the Vatican does not have a gas station, so why would they feel compelled to get a SC?