Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

No Proximity Chimes in 2023 RWD (no FSD)?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally it was 75 vs 90 top speed and follow minimum of 3 vs 1... after a year it had gone up to 85 and follow min of 2... it's still not at parity 18 months from the original vision-only switchover.

As it which is a bigger deal- depends on the user. Many here say they never, ever, use self-park or smart summon at all (and you don't even GET those features without paying for them separately anyway)... whereas basic AP, which the speed and follow distances apply to, have been included free with every Tesla since early 2019.
What grates for me with this stuff, sensor removal, etc, is that it’s all about how it benefits Tesla. Less sensors, lower cost to manufacture, bigger margins per car (like Tesla is hurting in that department with 34%+ margin per car).

When are customers ever going to be the ones that benefit from these sensors and other hardware being removed? You have people championing these decisions too, perhaps they have Stockholm Syndrome or - more cynically - they see TSLA investors first and foremost, gross margin per car going up is good news for them.

What makes it worse is that none of these replacement systems are released and imposed upon people when they’re ready. Customers are just expected to suck it up for however long it takes Tesla to approximate the functionality of systems that worked perfectly well already.

It’s all very well smart engineers and AI gurus suggesting that cameras doing everything is possible, but it’s not possible right now and customers actually have to drive these cars and live with their shortcomings. Those customers paid full price for them too, only to have functionality deleted down the line. Tesla have said they “aren’t planning to” remove USS from older cars, but how long is that likely to last?

Just once I’d like to see a development of the car that wasn’t all about reducing manufacturing costs at the customer’s expense.
 
A different take on @Durzel 's post: it seems like Tesla has an air of what I will call arrogance when it comes to their business decisions (whether it relates to products or services or whatever) in that they expect customers to put up with the way they do things because they are Tesla. That certainly worked in the early days when their product line was truly leading edge and pretty much the only game in town, but it's becoming less so recently. As their market share expands, their customers are less "enthusiasts" and more mainstream that won't be as willing to put up with *sugar*. As @Durzel said, it's like they expect us to put up with "temporary" loss of functionality because they are Tesla and all will be fine in the next release which is only "two weeks" away.

I see this attitude with their service, their sales process, their solar business, etc. I still think the competition has a long way to go to catch up to them, but Tesla is leaving some pretty huge niches for the competition to swoop in and recapture customers, because not everyone is going to put up with that attitude.
 
You could say similar about Apple - e.g. removing headphone jack, requiring a unique power connector (Lightning) for several products, etc.

The key difference is that this is the price of entry to the Apple ecosystem, and there is actually customer-centric benefits to sticking with them. I'm not sure I can say the same of Tesla really, there are plenty of manufacturers making EVs now that are compelling and in many areas better. Tesla still have the brand aspirational value, charging network, battery & motor efficiency that beats their rivals, but this won't endure indefinitely and as you say not everyone is going to put up with it.

I can easily imagine a lot of new Tesla customers who end up only getting one car from them before returning to a more familiar, less compromised brand.
 
As @Durzel said, it's like they expect us to put up with "temporary" loss of functionality because they are Tesla and all will be fine in the next release which is only "two weeks" away.
They also bet on the ability to substitute software for those sensors, at production reliability, and have not achieved it in the time it took the hardware teams to modify the body design, change the manufacturing line, train the workers, and deliver cars.
 
A different take on @Durzel I still think the competition has a long way to go to catch up to them, but Tesla is leaving some pretty huge niches for the competition to swoop in and recapture customers, because not everyone is going to put up with that attitude.
Until the rest of EVs get the supercharging network, I don’t think the competition has much going for them. Tesla should’ve figured out the software part of USS removal before the roll out for sure. I like my distance chimes when parking, but I would trade USS for front bumper camera.
 
Until the rest of EVs get the supercharging network, I don’t think the competition has much going for them.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I think Tesla arrogantly assumes that this is the attitude of their customers: that they are going to be willing to put up with their "experimental" and "coming soon" things because they are Tesla and have the Supercharger network (or some other desirable feature).

And in this particular case, yes, the Supercharger network is certainly an advantage in the US (not so much in other areas). But it's not insurmountable, and for many, that's not top priority anyway.

It's fine if Tesla continues to innovate and come out with new features unseen in the market, but the days of slightly less than perfect function are coming to an end. The mainstream public will not put up with that.
 
It's fine if Tesla continues to innovate and come out with new features unseen in the market, but the days of slightly less than perfect function are coming to an end. The mainstream public will not put up with that.
If the mainstream public wouldn’t put up with Tesla’s shortcomings then TMC would have million+ members complaining. I guarantee you 90% of people driving Teslas have no idea what got removed or added when their car updated.
 
You could say similar about Apple - e.g. removing headphone jack, requiring a unique power connector (Lightning) for several products, etc.

The key difference is that this is the price of entry to the Apple ecosystem, and there is actually customer-centric benefits to sticking with them. I'm not sure I can say the same of Tesla really, there are plenty of manufacturers making EVs now that are compelling and in many areas better. Tesla still have the brand aspirational value, charging network, battery & motor efficiency that beats their rivals, but this won't endure indefinitely and as you say not everyone is going to put up with it.

Yes, Tesla's biggest advantages are in the EV stuff -- efficiency (and therefore more range per battery capacity) and the convenience of the Supercharger network (including the built-in navigation including any needed charging stops). Over-the-air software updates are another advantage (compared to having to go to the dealer to get a software update), although new versions sometimes come with new bugs (a disadvantage). The Model 3 is also a car, rather than an oversized SUV that seems to be the focus of most competitors (e.g. VW replaced the e-Golf not with the obvious successor ID.3, but with the larger ID.4 SUV, and GM's upcoming EVs are all SUVs that are significantly larger and less efficient than the Bolt). Not every buyer wants an SUV, so having an actual car in the EV lineup helps.

But these Tesla advantages are not insurmountable for other companies, if they choose to address them. If they do, then some of the questionable rest-of-car design and other choices that Tesla made (e.g. deletion of hardware like radar and ultrasonic sensors before software using other methods could replace their functionality) could be more of a disadvantage in the market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RTPEV
If the mainstream public wouldn’t put up with Tesla’s shortcomings then TMC would have million+ members complaining. I guarantee you 90% of people driving Teslas have no idea what got removed or added when their car updated.
No, because the mainstream public would not care enough to hop on an enthusiast forum.

Instead, what they will do is hop on social media and review sites and do their own comparisons. And they will listen to their friends and family who relay their experiences about things like Tesla service being "message based only", or wonder why there are so many reports of phantom braking on Teslas, or how the adaptive cruise control works unreliably/unpredictably...this latter one is a pet peeve of mine, which I am willing to put up with because I'm hopeful that it will improve in the future despite a series of setbacks, but I doubt the average Joe is going to be as patient.
 
Tesla are all in on "value engineering" at the moment. I'm not convinced that any of the things that have been removed or downgraded - passenger lumbar, USB data, USS, probably others I can't think of - have anything to do with a sure-footed engineering philosophy and everything to do with increasing the margin per car for them.

They might crack camera-based USS at some point in the future, or - more likely I think - they will approximate something that just about reaches parity in absolute idealised conditions and unreliable the rest of the time. Tesla's track record with auto headlights, auto wipers, etc speaks volumes.
 
Until the rest of EVs get the supercharging network, I don’t think the competition has much going for them. Tesla should’ve figured out the software part of USS removal before the roll out for sure. I like my distance chimes when parking, but I would trade USS for front bumper camera.
The competition is slowly closing the gap and it's just a matter of being able to ramp up production. Pretty well all EV's from legacy automakers are sold out and waiting list only. Production capacity is all Tesla has going for it at this stage. You only have to look at what's going on with Twitter to understand why Tesla will fail to capitalize on their EV head start as Elon is all about stripping his businesses to the core and maximizing profit. There's little if any attention paid to the product or consumer benefit. It's going to catch up with Tesla and it's only a matter of legacy automakers being able to build enough of their EV's to satisfy consumer demand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Durzel
These cars are the rare example of early adopters getting the best version of a car model. A complete 180 from all other auto manufacturers that add and improve hardware over time to an existing model.
Actually, there are cases where other car companies have deleted or downgraded hardware (and not just in the recent supply-chain problems).

 
Status
Not open for further replies.