Another automaker could have implemented a CCS port that would accept standard CCS and Tesla Supercharger through the upper pins. If they really wanted to. No other automaker wanted to because it would be an implicit acknowledgement that Tesla is superior.
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Non Teslas using Superchargers
- Thread starter Pablodog
- Start date
No, it does not. Because IONITY is an open network 'by design'. It was designed from the start to be a third-party company (not 'bound' to any particular brand) to charge all cars and charge a hefty fee for it. it is simply a business decision.
Tesla needed Superchargers because there was no alternative.
IONITY or the us equivalent EA is a public network build to make a profit. Just as any other DCFC.
IONITY/EA _wants_ Tesla to charge at their stations, because they make money when people charge at their stations.
It also doesn't help that Superchargers have those big red 'TESLA' signs on all the stalls. If Tesla really wanted to open up their superchargers they should remove those signs. Change it to a more generic name.
Like IONITY or Electrify America.
It's possible he was actually charging if he had a defeat device. According to posts from this thread, you could supposedly buy certain parts from a salvaged Tesla, build an "adapter" out of it, and trick the supercharger into thinking you're a valid Tesla and give you power:
Non Tesla EV charging at supercharger?
Non Tesla EV charging at supercharger?
That's not true. Nissan built their network and made it freely available (literally free, no charge at first) to all drivers using CHAdeMO and CCS. In fact Tesla even took advantage of it by releasing the CHAdeMO adaptor.
By the same logic Tesla could have implemented CCS on the same port from the very start, but didn't. In fact they went so far as to release a CHAdeMO adaptor because that was the most common standard in the UK at the time, and they wanted to leech off the Nissan network that Leaf owners paid for.
I've never heard of a charging network from Nissan in Europe, except for some CHAdeMO DCFC chargers at Nissan dealer lots, which are often occupied by dealer vehicles (demo cars) for days (not charging)
I can't find a map of those chargers either. Nissan says on their site '2000 locations', but that number seems to include all public DCFC (not just those from Nissan).
Anyway, Tesla did start it's supercharger network because it found existing solutions inadequate. They wanted to solve the 'chicken and the egg' problem regarding EV Charging.
In theory that could work, but not with a Volvo PHEV because that simply does not support DC fast charging. It would fry the car.
Your perspective is quite different from mine. Tesla has endeavored to make their cars "omnivorous" and allow charging from as many sources as possible. This is the most beneficial for the car's owner. Tesla is not "leeching" they are giving their customers more charging options.
So you suck at using Google. Congratuations.
Try Zap Map for a start. You can filter Ecotricity stations, as well as Nissan and Renault (same company) rapid charging stations.
Map of charging points for electric car drivers in UK: Zap-Map
It's leeching because they want to benefit from all networks, including the ones built by other manufacturers, while keeping theirs private.
Thanks for the compliment. Very good. I looked on that map actually.
This map is UK-only. And Ecotricity (which is the Nissan joint venture charging network, apparantly) only has chargers in the UK.
So how does this open up the possibility for roadtrips through Europe exactly? Where is this vast network of Nissan charge locations that Tesla has been abusing by developing a CHAdeMO adapter, besides the UK?
Also, Ecotricity started this JT with Nissan late 2012. At that time the Model S was already in production in the US and came to mainland Europe not much later. So at the time Tesla came to Europe, there was no real network to speak of
Nissan's dealer-based ChaDeMo network is too irregularly placed and too slow to be of much use for travel, and fairly non-ideal even for local/city only use. Practically nobody uses the dealer based charging stations for those reason alone, but on top of that they're often non-functional or have dealer vehicles sitting plugged in for days at a time, because the dealers don't care about what image Nissan corporate wants to sell (that they're enabling easy travel and DCFC availability to their customers).
The adapter was built to take advantage of the various public FOR PROFIT (and thus not leech-able) charging networks that have installed ChaDeMo outlets, so that owners who chose to buy the adapter would have even more flexibility in where and when they can charge.
Tesla may soon add CCS adapters for non-CCS (i.e. anything that isn't an EU 3, currently) vehicles as another option to expand the flexibility of their cars. I'm not aware of anyone offering free CCS charging that isn't free to the entire public (i.e. no more leeching than anyone else using it), most are for profit stations anyways.
Tesla isn't leeching off anyone with regards to the charging infrastructure.
The adapter was built to take advantage of the various public FOR PROFIT (and thus not leech-able) charging networks that have installed ChaDeMo outlets, so that owners who chose to buy the adapter would have even more flexibility in where and when they can charge.
Tesla may soon add CCS adapters for non-CCS (i.e. anything that isn't an EU 3, currently) vehicles as another option to expand the flexibility of their cars. I'm not aware of anyone offering free CCS charging that isn't free to the entire public (i.e. no more leeching than anyone else using it), most are for profit stations anyways.
Tesla isn't leeching off anyone with regards to the charging infrastructure.
brucet999
Active Member
Why? They were designed, built, and maintained by Tesla to make possible (relatively) convenient long distance travel. No other EV at the time was capable of the high charging rates and no other manufacturer was willing to shoulder some of the financial burden in order to participate.
Because those big red Tesla signs will also prevent any other brand from joining Tesla's Supercharger network.
Can you see BMW or Audi telling its customers: "Yes, you can charge at Tesla's supercharger network"?
What will never happen. If Tesla _really_ wants to open up it's network, they need a separate name for their charging network that isn't a direct link to Tesla as a brand.
For now there is no reason why Tesla would do this. It is one of their biggest advantages, and they churn out cars faster then they roll out Superchargers, so every Supercharger is seeing increased used already. no need to add cars from another brand at this time.
The signage alone would hardly be a dealbreaker. Hell, if they were smart, they'd WANT to be associated with Tesla, as it would raise the awareness and perception of their own EVs by association.
There's plenty of more significant reasons for the incumbents to not join (such as "not invented here" syndrome, and the difficulty of integrating their power / charging systems with Tesla's interface since every subsystem is a different contractor at most brands).
As to why we don't have Rivian and Bollinger already onboard as members ... I suspect that the main reason would be typically bad Tesla communication. But also perhaps also that they may not be in a position to promise appropriate funding into the Supercharger network as they are likely funding constrained getting their vehicle lines spun up. If it's the latter that's a roadblock, then I wish Tesla would grant them some kind of "first X units free" or "payment due in 1 year" time situation to let them get up to speed.
Merrill
Merrill
Yeah, that's not what we are talking about. For example, in the UK, at every single motorway service station in the country, there are at least two CHAdeMO chargers. It's much more dense than the supercharger network and much more convenient too. You don't have to go off your route just to charge.
At least one, if not more of those at each location were paid for by Nissan.
You do not work in marketing I assume?. Even different brands from the VAG-group don't want to be seen as partners. Audi, VW, Skoda, Porsche all have different buildings/showrooms (often on the same plot). They don't share a single thing.
No way in hell Mercedes, BMW or Audi will tell it's customers they can charge at Tesla's stations, confirming that their network is superior.
After all, for European Car manufacturers, Tesla is the big enemy and primary competition in the EV segment. They even proposed a new incentive today, for cars with more than 200km range and no longer than 4.68 centimeters. Guess what, Model 3 is 4.69. That is so obvious it's sad.
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