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Off Topic Tariff discussion

There seems to be two topics running in this thread, one on tariffs on steel and aluminum and one on model S refresh. I can see some interior upgrades happening during the year but I doubt if any exterior changes will happen this year. It costs a lot more money to change the exterior with changes in tooling and production whereas the interior changes can be made relatively less expensively and would accomplish the end goal of selling more cars.

As to the tariffs, it is clear that many on here don't understand the need for tariffs. When there is an imbalance of trade you are creating debt for all of us to pay. Additionally, you hurt companies like Tesla because our autos are highly taxed going into their countries but the converse isn't true. The only way our auto manufacturer can sell a car competitively in many of these countries is by building them in that country. Guess what that does the manufacturer in our own country and the jobs they create? You probably guessed it, it takes away those jobs that would have been here and helped the company grow here. I think Trumps solution is the right one on tariffs. We are for free, open and FAIR trade. This means we will treat you the way you treat us. If you don't tariff our products we won't tariff yours. If you tariff our products at 20%, we will tariff yours at 20%. Some countries tariff our goods at 100% and we allow their goods to come in tariff free. We are giving them our jobs, our money, our future manufacturing capability just so we can pay a little less for these goods. Not smart or good long range thinking. I know the arguments that they are subsidizing their manufacturing and selling it to us below cost so it will hurt them. The problem with that mode of thinking is that your companies can't compete so they leave to become more competitive. You lose the jobs and capability and before long you are dependent on the other country to manufacture goods for you and you now have to pay whatever price they want because you can't produce it yourself. The capital and intellectual plus knowledge start up costs are so high you are out of the market.
 

ℬête Noire

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
3,105
2,700
TX
As to the tariffs, it is clear that many on here don't understand the need for tariffs. When there is an imbalance of trade you are creating debt for all of us to pay. Additionally, you hurt companies like Tesla because our autos are highly taxed going into their countries but the converse isn't true. The only way our auto manufacturer can sell a car competitively in many of these countries is by building them in that country. Guess what that does the manufacturer in our own country and the jobs they create? You probably guessed it, it takes away those jobs that would have been here and helped the company grow here. I think Trumps solution is the right one on tariffs. We are for free, open and FAIR trade. This means we will treat you the way you treat us. If you don't tariff our products we won't tariff yours. If you tariff our products at 20%, we will tariff yours at 20%. Some countries tariff our goods at 100% and we allow their goods to come in tariff free. We are giving them our jobs, our money, our future manufacturing capability just so we can pay a little less for these goods. Not smart or good long range thinking. I know the arguments that they are subsidizing their manufacturing and selling it to us below cost so it will hurt them. The problem with that mode of thinking is that your companies can't compete so they leave to become more competitive. You lose the jobs and capability and before long you are dependent on the other country to manufacture goods for you and you now have to pay whatever price they want because you can't produce it yourself. The capital and intellectual plus knowledge start up costs are so high you are out of the market.

Sorry but that's a whole lot of road apples there.

What Trump's claiming has very little resemblance to reality. What the situation is, what he's supposing the tariffs will result in, what trade deficit means (and where it even is happening), just wave and wave of nonsense. Which by this point shouldn't be surprising anyone when he weighs in on something.

Here's a quick rundown on that addresses some key points of the misconceptions when this came up in the Model 3 forum:

Any thoughts of the price of the model 3 going up if the steel/aluminum tariff goes thru?

It doesn't cover all your post but the end of your post was just...I'm feeling up with wading through and sorting all that out.

P.S. I wrote that post prior to hearing he'd explicitly claimed that the US had a trade deficit with Canada. So consider that a coincidental bonus correction.
 
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wdolson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2015
8,706
16,169
Clark Co, WA
Sorry but that's a whole lot of road apples there.

What Trump's claiming has very little resemblance to reality. What the situation is, what he's supposing the tariffs will result in, what trade deficit means (and where it even is happening), just wave and wave of nonsense. Which by this point shouldn't be surprising anyone when he weighs in on something.

Here's a quick rundown on that addresses some key points of the misconceptions when this came up in the Model 3 forum:

Any thoughts of the price of the model 3 going up if the steel/aluminum tariff goes thru?

It doesn't cover all your post but the end of your post was just...I'm feeling up with wading through and sorting all that out.

P.S. I wrote that post prior to hearing he'd explicitly claimed that the US had a trade deficit with Canada. So consider that a coincidental bonus correction.

It is true the US has a trade deficit with Canada, but it's a bit less than $17 billion. The trade deficit with China is $375 billion.

Everything with this administration is loony beyond belief.
 

ℬête Noire

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
3,105
2,700
TX
It is true the US has a trade deficit with Canada, but it's a bit less than $17 billion.
Quite literally the Office of the President disagrees...although I guess the memo isn't widely circulated internally. ;) Canada | United States Trade Representative

Either way, yeah it's margin of error in measuring type stuff (about 5 years back the gap was literally 10's of millions, I think that's in the data in my above linked post).
 
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RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
11,226
59,045
Los Angeles, USA
I suspect the tariff will be short lived. GW Bush tried a tariff and it lasted less than a year.

GWB cared far more about the International Liberal Order than steel tariffs.

Tariffs are the raison d'être of the Trump campaign.

He will break the WTO, our alliance with Europe, and anything else that gets in the way.
 
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There seems to be two topics running in this thread, one on tariffs on steel and aluminum and one on model S refresh. I can see some interior upgrades happening during the year but I doubt if any exterior changes will happen this year. It costs a lot more money to change the exterior with changes in tooling and production whereas the interior changes can be made relatively less expensively and would accomplish the end goal of selling more cars.

As to the tariffs, it is clear that many on here don't understand the need for tariffs. When there is an imbalance of trade you are creating debt for all of us to pay. Additionally, you hurt companies like Tesla because our autos are highly taxed going into their countries but the converse isn't true. The only way our auto manufacturer can sell a car competitively in many of these countries is by building them in that country. Guess what that does the manufacturer in our own country and the jobs they create? You probably guessed it, it takes away those jobs that would have been here and helped the company grow here. I think Trumps solution is the right one on tariffs. We are for free, open and FAIR trade. This means we will treat you the way you treat us. If you don't tariff our products we won't tariff yours. If you tariff our products at 20%, we will tariff yours at 20%. Some countries tariff our goods at 100% and we allow their goods to come in tariff free. We are giving them our jobs, our money, our future manufacturing capability just so we can pay a little less for these goods. Not smart or good long range thinking. I know the arguments that they are subsidizing their manufacturing and selling it to us below cost so it will hurt them. The problem with that mode of thinking is that your companies can't compete so they leave to become more competitive. You lose the jobs and capability and before long you are dependent on the other country to manufacture goods for you and you now have to pay whatever price they want because you can't produce it yourself. The capital and intellectual plus knowledge start up costs are so high you are out of the market.
Not only would you lose the equipment, capital and intellectual power, but as you said, you'd lose the money, and usually, that environment is created by globalists who want citizens to be diminished, mis-educated, and unable to accomplish anything, so even if you had the time on your hands to go learn how to do the knowledge and intellectual work, you wouldn't even have the education necessary, and generally speaking, first worlders who had everything stolen from them, and have no experience, are never allowed by globalists to work anywhere where they can improve their skills. The globalists work around this by having intellectual power around the globe that they shift around as and when they want (H-1B visas in USA) to steal all your opportunities and kill your family, and make certain you never have enough resources to start a family in the first place, and you die off. Win win for the anti-citizen globalists.

Trump is for the citizens, not the evil globalists, so of course he's doing the right thing. It's the first time most of us alive have witnessed it! We're still getting used to it. Being allowed to have children is going to be a whole new experience that may take many generations to relearn (since most people today are held off from adultship until sometime around 25 years old, so nothing is naturally accomplished). It might be too late for many of us.
 
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Sorry but that's a whole lot of road apples there.

What Trump's claiming has very little resemblance to reality. What the situation is, what he's supposing the tariffs will result in, what trade deficit means (and where it even is happening), just wave and wave of nonsense. Which by this point shouldn't be surprising anyone when he weighs in on something.

Here's a quick rundown on that addresses some key points of the misconceptions when this came up in the Model 3 forum:

Any thoughts of the price of the model 3 going up if the steel/aluminum tariff goes thru?

It doesn't cover all your post but the end of your post was just...I'm feeling up with wading through and sorting all that out.

P.S. I wrote that post prior to hearing he'd explicitly claimed that the US had a trade deficit with Canada. So consider that a coincidental bonus correction.
I got road apples and a claim of no reality in two sentences, and the third sentence had no verb. Do I need to read further?
 

McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
6,077
LA
Our international trade has been controlled by opportunists, mostly with no business experience. We call these people our Congress. In general, dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to business, but very smart when it comes to converting their office into a cash machine.

Then you hear from a group of others with no business experience, and are not familiar with mfr'g, how Terrible Trump is going to start World War Four (three is on-going) by equalizing international trade rules.

I'd trust somebody who has exposure to business negotiations that don't involve graft over Congress, or Pundits Paid To Say Anything.
 

ℬête Noire

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
3,105
2,700
TX
Our international trade has been controlled by opportunists, mostly with no business experience. We call these people our Congress. In general, dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to business, but very smart when it comes to converting their office into a cash machine.

Then you hear from a group of others with no business experience, and are not familiar with mfr'g, how Terrible Trump is going to start World War Four (three is on-going) by equalizing international trade rules.

I'd trust somebody who has exposure to business negotiations that don't involve graft over Congress, or Pundits Paid To Say Anything.

LOL
 

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