Wall Connector insurance coverage for condo garage spot in Florida

[CondoCrusader]

Hello,

I’m new to this group and this is my first post. I apologize if this post is not correct in any way.

Please let me explain our situation. We purchased a MYLR in January of 2023 when there was a price drop. We live in a condominuim and so reached out the our HOA to gauge how they would respond to our desire to have a wal connector installed in our parking spot. They referred us to Florida statute concerning this (Chapter 718 Section 113 - 2020 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate) which reads as pro-EV indicating HOAs may not prevent a condo owner from installing a wall connector in their own parking spot at our own cost. This sounded reasonable to us so we proceeded with the purchase and started looking for electricians.

This endeavor has turned out to be a nightmare. Most of the electricians we attempted to get quotes from refused to quote the job with the HOA intimidating the contractors at every step. Consequently we were only able to find one electrical company willing to work with us and the HOA. The job requires us to have a separate meter managed by our electrical company and a 150’ conduit run from the electrical vault to our parking spot. The quote we receive for this job was $12,000. This seemed excessive to us but assumed the premium cost was due to issues having to work with an HOA, beside the fact we could not get any other electrician to give us a quote. The entire year of 2023 was spent dealing with the HOA’s ever changing requirements, lies and lawyers. We finally thought we were getting somewhere when, on the boards final session before the new board was voted in, during the beginning of 2024, they approved us to install our wall connector. We thought we would finally have our wall connector until the HOA presented us with a contract to sign with 18 stipulations.

This brings me to the reason for my post. Stipulation 10 is concerns insurance and reads as follows:
10) Owners must provide a certificate of hazard and liability insurance within fourteen (14) days of installation and name the Association as an additional insured on their owner’s policy for any claim related to installation, maintenance, or use of the vehicle charging station in the amount of at least $300,000. The Association may enforce payment of such costs pursuant to s.718.116.This policy must be maintained as long as the charging station remains in place and the Owner must provide a new certificate upon renewal. Failure to maintain such insurance shall require removal of the charging station and all equipment within 14 days of the lapse of the policy.

I would like to point out that the statute 718.113 (f)4 indicates: 4.Provide a certificate of insurance naming the association as an additional insured on the owner’s insurance policy for any claim related to the installation, maintenance, or use of the electric vehicle charging station within 14 days after receiving the association’s approval to install such charging station.

Given this we thought we could just have the association added as “additional insured” to our home owners insurance and that would cover their demands. We contacted our insurance agent and they would only agree to add our HOA as “additional interest” stating:

Adding the association as an additional insured on a policy creates a huge exposure and that is why most companies will not.

The HOA confirmed that they would not be satisfied with this. So we are again facing another road block. Talk of us moving out or giving up on the wall connector all together has come up.


It has been suggested that our current car insurer Geico might be able to cover this but we were unsure about this. I just noticed that Tesla has an “Electric Vehicle Protection Package” including coverage for a Tesla wall charger and Tesla electronic key replacement but Tesla insurance is not yet available in Florida. I would like to know if anyone else has had to find this coverage and where they got it. I would also like to know if anyone has any other advice or thought on dealing with HOAs. If there is a lot of interest in the subject of dealing with HOAs perhaps it could be added as another channel or group or whatever it is called.

Thank you for your time and reading my post I look forward to any responces.

Have a nice day.

 

[BroncoAZ]

What a nightmare. Time to move and stop allowing yourselves to be bullied by the HOA. The best way to survive an HOA is to get on the board and run it from the inside with a few like minded folks. Short of that it’s time to move. $12K to install a charger buys 100K miles of gasoline for a 25 mpg ICE vehicle, likely much more in something hybrid. Assuming you spent around $45K on the MYLR after the price drop, you can sell it and lose less than $12K. I’m not trying to be negative, buy sometimes the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

Perhaps another approach would be to petition the HOA to install their own EV charger parking spaces rather than taking it on yourself. You would need to get support from other residents. In MA there are some incentives for business and public entities to install publicly available charging stations. I looked into it for my employer, the incentive would pay for the new meter and all associated electrical service costs, we would’ve had to pay for the chargers themselves. In the end we passed on moving forward because we didn’t want people hanging out in our construction yard while they charged.

 

[dakhlkt22]

This is probably related to it being early days with EVs. While adding the condo to the insurance seems reasonable on its face, it may be impractical if insurance companies have not responded by adding this as an option. Does the law explain what to do if no insurer offers this option? Eventually when everyone owns EVs, the condo will simply cover this exposure collectively. The condo probably covers all kinds of risks collectively already, such as the risks of parking ICE cars in the garage without requiring special insurance from owners.

 

[fholbert]

Hello,

I’m new to this group and this is my first post. I apologize if this post is not correct in any way.

Please let me explain our situation. We purchased a MYLR in January of 2023 when there was a price drop. We live in a condominuim and so reached out the our HOA to gauge how they would respond to our desire to have a wal connector installed in our parking spot. They referred us to Florida statute concerning this (Chapter 718 Section 113 - 2020 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate) which reads as pro-EV indicating HOAs may not prevent a condo owner from installing a wall connector in their own parking spot at our own cost. This sounded reasonable to us so we proceeded with the purchase and started looking for electricians.

This endeavor has turned out to be a nightmare. Most of the electricians we attempted to get quotes from refused to quote the job with the HOA intimidating the contractors at every step. Consequently we were only able to find one electrical company willing to work with us and the HOA. The job requires us to have a separate meter managed by our electrical company and a 150’ conduit run from the electrical vault to our parking spot. The quote we receive for this job was $12,000. This seemed excessive to us but assumed the premium cost was due to issues having to work with an HOA, beside the fact we could not get any other electrician to give us a quote. The entire year of 2023 was spent dealing with the HOA’s ever changing requirements, lies and lawyers. We finally thought we were getting somewhere when, on the boards final session before the new board was voted in, during the beginning of 2024, they approved us to install our wall connector. We thought we would finally have our wall connector until the HOA presented us with a contract to sign with 18 stipulations.

This brings me to the reason for my post. Stipulation 10 is concerns insurance and reads as follows:
10) Owners must provide a certificate of hazard and liability insurance within fourteen (14) days of installation and name the Association as an additional insured on their owner’s policy for any claim related to installation, maintenance, or use of the vehicle charging station in the amount of at least $300,000. The Association may enforce payment of such costs pursuant to s.718.116.This policy must be maintained as long as the charging station remains in place and the Owner must provide a new certificate upon renewal. Failure to maintain such insurance shall require removal of the charging station and all equipment within 14 days of the lapse of the policy.

I would like to point out that the statute 718.113 (f)4 indicates: 4.Provide a certificate of insurance naming the association as an additional insured on the owner’s insurance policy for any claim related to the installation, maintenance, or use of the electric vehicle charging station within 14 days after receiving the association’s approval to install such charging station.

Given this we thought we could just have the association added as “additional insured” to our home owners insurance and that would cover their demands. We contacted our insurance agent and they would only agree to add our HOA as “additional interest” stating:

The HOA confirmed that they would not be satisfied with this. So we are again facing another road block. Talk of us moving out or giving up on the wall connector all together has come up.


It has been suggested that our current car insurer Geico might be able to cover this but we were unsure about this. I just noticed that Tesla has an “Electric Vehicle Protection Package” including coverage for a Tesla wall charger and Tesla electronic key replacement but Tesla insurance is not yet available in Florida. I would like to know if anyone else has had to find this coverage and where they got it. I would also like to know if anyone has any other advice or thought on dealing with HOAs. If there is a lot of interest in the subject of dealing with HOAs perhaps it could be added as another channel or group or whatever it is called.

Thank you for your time and reading my post I look forward to any responces.

Have a nice day.

$12k to install it plus $300k in insurance? When you sell the condo you’ll get zero return on the charger and I’ll bet you’re not allowed to remove it if you move.

No. The math just doesn’t work.

 

[zoomer0056]

My HOA only required the electrician to submit plans. They were approved by the board and installation was inspected afterwards. It may have helped that the electrician works for the same company that the HOA is part of.

 

[fholbert]

My HOA only required the electrician to submit plans. They were approved by the board and installation was inspected afterwards. It may have helped that the electrician works for the same company that the HOA is part of.

That raises a good point @CondoCrusader. I’m sure the the HOA has an electrician they use. Have you asked for a price from that guy?

 

[ATPMSD]

Consult a lawyer as this may be in violation of the law since the HOA is establishing rules that are so over-the-top as they block compliance.

 

[karkrazy]

IIRC CA law also stipulates adding the HOA as additional insured, for a minimum amount. The amount wasn’t the problem but no insurer would add the HOA as additional insured. So I sent my HOA the communications I had and managed to convince them that the best that could be done was to add them as additional interest. Helped that I knew the board and they weren’t total strangers

 

[bradtem]

The law may give you the right to have the charger, but as you have seen, if the HOA really doesn't want you to have it, they have a lot of little tricks they can pull. You may be able to beat them with lawyers but it will cost you a lot, there is no good win for you.

As one commenter suggested, you perhaps need to rally other condo owners and see if they support you. Put out the word, "The HOA is doing everything it is power to block me from having an electric car, in spite of the law that says they should allow it. Are you thinking of an EV? Join me in pushing the HOA to be welcoming and not forbidding." See if anybody joins you. Ideally you don't have to run for a seat on the HOA, just tell them that the members think they are being assholes. This may not work.

Some other tricks, if the HOA softens up include:
a) Can you permanently trade parking spaces with somebody closer to the electrical panel? That would reduce costs a bit. It would not change insurance or other issues, though.
b) Can you put in level 1? Level 1 is much more useful than most people realize. I charged my car on level 1 for 2 years, no problems. I went to a local supercharger to top up once in the 2 years. It's not your first choice, but it can be a lot cheaper to put in depending on the situation. There might be a place where there's an existing Level 1 receptacle somewhere near a parking space.

But you may have to give up. Stories of asshole HOAs are legion. Sometimes people win. Sometimes they don't.

If there is a problem because there's not enough current capacity in the electrical panel and they insist you pay for service upgrade, I have a solution for that, contact me.

 

[CondoCrusader]

That raises a good point @CondoCrusader. I’m sure the the HOA has an electrician they use. Have you asked for a price from that guy?

Our HOA did contact their electrical company and we were informed that they “determined that the buildings electrical configuration does not support separately metered power which is against the statute.”. This was one of their first miss-information efforts. The electrical company we hired informed us that this was indeed BS.

Thank you for your response and suggestion however. It is much appriciated.

 

[CondoCrusader]

$12k to install it plus $300k in insurance? When you sell the condo you’ll get zero return on the charger and I’ll bet you’re not allowed to remove it if you move.

No. The math just doesn’t work.

Actually we are required by the statute to remove the charger if we move and the buyer doesn’t want it.

 

[CondoCrusader]

The law may give you the right to have the charger, but as you have seen, if the HOA really doesn't want you to have it, they have a lot of little tricks they can pull. You may be able to beat them with lawyers but it will cost you a lot, there is no good win for you.

As one commenter suggested, you perhaps need to rally other condo owners and see if they support you. Put out the word, "The HOA is doing everything it is power to block me from having an electric car, in spite of the law that says they should allow it. Are you thinking of an EV? Join me in pushing the HOA to be welcoming and not forbidding." See if anybody joins you. Ideally you don't have to run for a seat on the HOA, just tell them that the members think they are being assholes. This may not work.

Some other tricks, if the HOA softens up include:
a) Can you permanently trade parking spaces with somebody closer to the electrical panel? That would reduce costs a bit. It would not change insurance or other issues, though.
b) Can you put in level 1? Level 1 is much more useful than most people realize. I charged my car on level 1 for 2 years, no problems. I went to a local supercharger to top up once in the 2 years. It's not your first choice, but it can be a lot cheaper to put in depending on the situation. There might be a place where there's an existing Level 1 receptacle somewhere near a parking space.

But you may have to give up. Stories of asshole HOAs are legion. Sometimes people win. Sometimes they don't.

If there is a problem because there's not enough current capacity in the electrical panel and they insist you pay for service upgrade, I have a solution for that, contact me.

The HOA has actually said they have been looking into installing car chargers. They also indicated that they can do this without the tennents approval. We have no idea what this would look like or how the electricity would be paid for. Given our history we have not been to encouraged with this possibility.

Our parking space is part of our condominium deed so swapping spaces is not an option.

Funny enough we do have a 110 electrical outlet in our parking space. Our HOA was nice enough to inform us that their lawyer confirmed we do NOT have the right to plug our car in the building‘s common electrical service.

The local electrical company has determined that there is enough capacity in their electrical vault for the wall connector. This would bypass the building panel's anyway.

Thank you for your suggestions. We appreciate any advice.

 

[bradtem]

The HOA has actually said they have been looking into installing car chargers. They also indicated that they can do this without the tennents approval. We have no idea what this would look like or how the electricity would be paid for. Given our history we have not been to encouraged with this possibility.

Our parking space is part of our condominium deed so swapping spaces is not an option.

Funny enough we do have a 110 electrical outlet in our parking space. Our HOA was nice enough to inform us that their lawyer confirmed we do NOT have the right to plug our car in the building‘s common electrical service.

The local electrical company has determined that there is enough capacity in their electrical vault for the wall connector. This would bypass the building panel's anyway.

Thank you for your suggestions. We appreciate any advice.

I presumed your space was part of your deed, but thought perhaps swapping -- with the cooperation of the other condo owner -- could be an option. It's still his space but you have an agreement that you can park in it, and vice versa. I doubt your HOA would be so reasonable as to let the title change.

On the 120v outlet, the key would be if it is a dedicated circuit, and who pays for the electricity in it. Possibly they pay so it would not be fair for you to plug in, even Level 1. If it's not a dedicated circuit same problem. If it belongs to you and you pay for it, you might simply argue that it is your car charger, no electrician needed so nothing to say no to, but they can still push that insurance requirement on you.

It's a shame if you need to get your own meter, as that's expensive, but yes, you would then have the capacity. I suppose you have tried just offering the HOA cash, in an amount that is sure to cover any usage you might do or other costs they would have, plus a surplus. It's sure to be less than the cost of a big install.

Now, if they are thinking of putting in chargers, it would probably be in some common parking (ie. not that close to your unit) and shared (ie. after 4 hours you need to move to your space, and it might be full with other owner's cars when you arrive) and possibly also billed at some public charger price (30 to 60 cents/kWh) so they make a profit. Not as nice, but better than nothing.

 

[ShawnA]

Hi All,

I have a condo and a HOA in Florida.
Good news for me is that it is a small
8 unit building.

The HOA are neighbors and were amenable to an installation for an outlet for my car.
We do not have deeded parking spaces or any specific spots other than by seniority.
I was able to “reserve “ a non popular space for installing my outlet.
I connected with a good local electrician. He ran a load calculation and the addition of the outlet was within the available power on my meter…
I only draw 32 or 40 Amps through a
14-50 outlet and I use the mobile connector for my charging.
I paid for all of the wiring and conduit runs. Good news economically was that the outlet used my existing power meter.
It has been a few years but my memory of the project cost was in the $2500 to $3000 price range.

“My” HOA has not requested nor been granted any insurance coverage by or from me…

Maybe you are able to change your plans slightly to get HOA cooperation.

Good luck!
Shawn

 

[akouri]

This might be helpful -- I am in the early phases of starting a program called Let's Electrify (www.letselectrify.org) that can help condo owners get together with other EV drivers in their community to crowdfund a charger in their condo's garage. There are a bunch of tools on the site to help with setting up the project and making sure it does not fizzle out.

In condos specifically, I have seen several different configurations work -- one in which a L1 outlet is installed in every single space, and another in which a shared L2 or L3 charger is installed in a guest space. The upside to the L1/L2 charger in every space is that you do not need to move your car when it finishes charging.

 

[bradtem]

This might be helpful -- I am in the early phases of starting a program called Let's Electrify (www.letselectrify.org) that can help condo owners get together with other EV drivers in their community to crowdfund a charger in their condo's garage. There are a bunch of tools on the site to help with setting up the project and making sure it does not fizzle out.

In condos specifically, I have seen several different configurations work -- one in which a L1 outlet is installed in every single space, and another in which a shared L2 or L3 charger is installed in a guest space. The upside to the L1/L2 charger in every space is that you do not need to move your car when it finishes charging.

Station for every EV driver (or most drivers) is definitely the way to go. You want to just park and plug in and forget about it, so it's no effort out of your day. That's the ideal EV experience. Definitely not level 3 which is not only hugely expensive but a worse experience. Level 3 can be of use if you forget to charge or your charge fails, but that's a once a year thing, so if there is any fast charger in town that can help with that.

There are systems (I help a company that makes them) available that will monitor the power being used by the residential units and give what's left to the cars, so you can have Level 2 for everybody without any change in electrical service. You can also get a bank of EVSEs that share the power which won't charge as fast but should do the job since the average car only needs 10kWh per day, so you can give them all the power they need, and also give the 1-2 cars that need to charge from 10% to 80%. If you can only afford a smaller number of stalls, again, most people only need to plug in every few days in ordinary use and commuting, so as long as people are polite, all the people who really need it can always plug in.

 

[WhitePlaid]

Ask the HOA where the specific law is that requires you to carry insurance on the charger? I can't find it anywhere and from what I've been reading, it's bs. Also I'm South Florida and it cost $6000. to install my charger. but it's dependent on how far you are from the panel.