Oil change in drive unit tesla model S

[teslexus]

Here is one interesting thing about oil change in tesla model S .
Dealer will not do it unless is problem with drive unit.
However we did change oil in drive unit regardless.
Dealership will not sell you oil also ,so we had to come up with alternatives.

 

[TarmacSurfer]

Why do you feel you need to?

 

[teslexus]

We try to see what is dealership using and they using oil Chrysan from Seoul, Korea in blue bin not available to buy here.

So after research we see that our model S 2012 using DEXTRON 6 and we were using OEM MV LV, however could be some other brand too you have to check with your model S and year.here we posted some pics from bmw and mobile 1 oil options.

First we had to remove all plastic covers on the bottom. SPRAYED a lot of penetrating oil to free those bolts 10 mm.
Than we did loose filler plug on drive unit first hex bolt after that drain plug which has magnet on it.

As you can see from pictures there is a lot of metal particles on small magnetic bolt .So we had used big magnet to transfer metal particles from bolt magnet .
Just imagine if those particles goes back in drive unit I think it will damage drive unit on long run for sure.

Amount of oil drained was about 2 liters. in our case 2 bottles of oil were needed.

We have injected new oil inside drive unit and that is it .very easy and simple.

We didnt use to much torque on bolts because they had green line as guide on drive unit.After that put back plastic shield and done .we hope this will help on order to prolong life of drive unit on tesla model S 2012.

Still this was for efucational purposes only.we planing to replace oil again after 40 000 km. Just in case.
Cheers.

 

[teslexus]

Why do you feel you need to?

Reason was because it was over 10 years old tesla and no record about oil change ,plus we did find a lot of metal particles on bottom of gear box on the drain plug screw as you can see on the pictures.

 

[teslexus]

Here is a close up of drive unit and location of hex bolts fill and drain plugs.

Also we colected amount of old oil just to add same amount back .

2 bottles were just ok a bit less than 2 liters in our case.

Now drive unit is even more quite when driving (and racing too lol)plaid style).,just kidding no racing here only normal and safe driving .

Price of oil was about $9.00 per bottle so very affordable.
I like design of tesla S and its easy to work on it.
Soon we will post in next thread how to fix brakes and how to replace elecric motor on parking brake and what kind of grease we put in parking brake electric motor..

Cheers

 

[David Harvey]

Gearbox oil change

docs.google.com

 

[Excaliber]

I just bought my Model S Plaid from Carmax.
It had 16k miles and there was a message saying gearbox fluid change recommended.
I took it to the Tesla Service 60 miles away.
I was late and they almost got it done but then they said the car failed a software issue.
They gave me a Model X with the gulwing doors which was kinda fun.
Then my car was ready by 8:30 AM so I went to pick it up.
this was under the warranty.
It's like the fluid in a new rear end of an ICE car.
The fluid gets dark from the gears wearing in.
So after this the gearbox fluid doesn't have to be changed again.

 

[dwbv]

Thank you for sharing this. I had noticed prior that my drain plug's green marker line doesn't line up so that tells me Tesla or someone did something to my rear drive unit before I bought the car. Interesting since my car just turned over 18k on the clock.

2015 P85D and drives great so who knows... Tesla won't tell me for sure. Just gonna keep driving.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Why do you feel you need to?

As an engineer and and lifelong gearhead, my question would by why anyone would not feel the need to change this fluid on an interval?

Just watch a teardown of one of these drive units on YouTube. You'll notice a few things: A bunch of large gears that mesh together under extremely high torque loads causing high sheering forces for the oil, a differential, a bunch of ball bearings, an oil filter to catch metal shavings, and even an oil cooler to deal with the high temps of the oil.

That should be everything you need to know to want to change this fluid every 50K miles.

Plus Tesla even used to recommend changing it regularly on the Model S, but you can imagine what a PR problem that causes when you recommend regular oil and filter changes for your EV.

 

[David Harvey]

Gearbox oil change

docs.google.com

As an engineer and and lifelong gearhead, my question would by why anyone would not feel the need to change this fluid on an interval?

Just watch a teardown of one of these drive units on YouTube. You'll notice a few things: A bunch of large gears that mesh together under extremely high torque loads causing high sheering forces for the oil, a differential, a bunch of ball bearings, an oil filter to catch metal shavings, and even an oil cooler to deal with the high temps of the oil.

That should be everything you need to know to want to change this fluid every 50K miles.

Plus Tesla even used to recommend changing it regularly on the Model S, but you can imagine what a PR problem that causes when you recommend regular oil and filter changes for your EV.

 

[dwbv]

Gearbox oil change

docs.google.com

I'm guessing this is what happened to my car? Somebody has definitely messed with the drain plug on my rear drive unit. Maybe the fluid was changed out at 12.5k miles per the service schedule. Makes me feel better but also uneasy.

Next time I'm near a service center, I'm gonna walk in there and ask for the service history, or at least I'm gonna try.

 

[Olle]

As an engineer and and lifelong gearhead, my question would by why anyone would not feel the need to change this fluid on an interval?

Just watch a teardown of one of these drive units on YouTube. You'll notice a few things: A bunch of large gears that mesh together under extremely high torque loads causing high sheering forces for the oil, a differential, a bunch of ball bearings, an oil filter to catch metal shavings, and even an oil cooler to deal with the high temps of the oil.

That should be everything you need to know to want to change this fluid every 50K miles.

Plus Tesla even used to recommend changing it regularly on the Model S, but you can imagine what a PR problem that causes when you recommend regular oil and filter changes for your EV.

Engineer and lifelong gearhead here too. I have been thinking a lot about this and wondered why they removed the oil change recommendation.

I hear from friends at Tesla that they consistency do staggering amounts of analysis and constantly change protocols and processes as a result. If that's true, the non oil change decision probably has a solid background. But why? The 3/Y have oil filters so cleaner oil seems to be desired, at least in those cars.

My best guess for Tesla's decision is that they've statistically determined that the S/X DUs more often need replacement for other reasons than mechanical wear, meaning little benefit to changing the oil. If not that, what else?

Thoughts?

 

[dn325ci]

...My best guess for Tesla's decision is that they've statistically determined that the S/X DUs more often need replacement for other reasons than mechanical wear, meaning little benefit to changing the oil. If not that, what else?

Thoughts?

This is the trend. The ZF 8-speeds used by BMW and many others were the first I saw get rid of the transmission fluid change, calling it a lifetime fluid. We have a Ram 1500 that has a ZF 8-speed and even in towing applications, Ram is still recommending no fluid change. Despite these claims, fluid change kits have emerged for almost every application.

Personal story: 2 years ago I took our BMW X5 for what seemed to be a “stumbling” or a “misfiring” problem. The diagnosis from the dealer was that it needed a Transfer Case replacement, costing approx. $6,700. I was surprised as we bought the vehicle new, it had below average miles and is driven pretty gingerly by my wife. With some quick research, I read online that the Transfer Case was sensitive to the quality of the fluid inside, so I inquired about whether we should start by replacing the fluid. I was told a fluid change would be $700, and the fluid alone was approx. $200, but it is a "lifetime" fluid and there isn't a standardized replacement procedure.

I took the vehicle back (incurring a $160 diagnostic charge) and the next Saturday I changed the fluid myself. The BMW-brand fluid cost me $42 retail online. It took me a couple hours to change it. Afterwards, during the first minute of the test drive I wasn’t sure the problem was resolved, but after 15-20 minutes of varied driving the fresh fluid worked through the clutch pack inside the transfer case and the problem was completely gone. Completely. We couldn’t be happier with the result.

It seems to me that recommending a nearly $7K repair as the only course of action, when $42 in fluid did the job feels almost criminal, but this is the direction the industry is going.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

This is the trend. The ZF 8-speeds used by BMW and many others were the first I saw get rid of the transmission fluid change, calling it a lifetime fluid. We have a Ram 1500 that has a ZF 8-speed and even in towing applications, Ram is still recommending no fluid change. Despite these claims, fluid change kits have emerged for almost every application.

Personal story: 2 years ago I took our BMW X5 for what seemed to be a “stumbling” or a “misfiring” problem. The diagnosis from the dealer was that it needed a Transfer Case replacement, costing approx. $6,700. I was surprised as we bought the vehicle new, it had below average miles and is driven pretty gingerly by my wife. With some quick research, I read online that the Transfer Case was sensitive to the quality of the fluid inside, so I inquired about whether we should start by replacing the fluid. I was told a fluid change would be $700, and the fluid alone was approx. $200, but it is a "lifetime" fluid and there isn't a standardized replacement procedure.

I took the vehicle back (incurring a $160 diagnostic charge) and the next Saturday I changed the fluid myself. The BMW-brand fluid cost me $42 retail online. It took me a couple hours to change it. Afterwards, during the first minute of the test drive I wasn’t sure the problem was resolved, but after 15-20 minutes of varied driving the fresh fluid worked through the clutch pack inside the transfer case and the problem was completely gone. Completely. We couldn’t be happier with the result.

It seems to me that recommending a nearly $7K repair as the only course of action, when $42 in fluid did the job feels almost criminal, but this is the direction the industry is going.

Yes, same with Land Rover on the transmission fluid recommendation change. However, ZF themselves recommend every 60K miles for the transmission they designed and built, and the big transmission repair facility in the UK that is best known for repairing the ZF's properly recommends 30K miles.

It's the greenies that have really pushed the manufacturers to remove these fluid change recommendations. In the end, they are creating more waste and pollution by destroying major components. Go figure.

 

[dn325ci]

For my library, is there a procedure somewhere for replacement this fluid in MSLR or MSP?

EDIT: Looking at @teslexus pictures, I guess there is just a drain and a fill. Easy. Torque spec?

 

[Unclepaul]

Tesla originally spec'd differential oil changes. They analyzed the oil they removed and determined that there was not a cost/benefit reason to recomend oil changes. Essentially considered them lifetime fills.
You see this with lots of OEMs recently. Also much longer engine oil intervales.

Must be something to it, as you see relatively few reports of diff failures not related to racing.

Perhaps it is a matter of better machining/metalurgy/fluids.

Old oil change at 3,000 miles is old fashioned. Now need to wait until the oil change is indicated on the dash.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Tesla originally spec'd differential oil changes. They analyzed the oil they removed and determined that there was not a cost/benefit reason to recomend oil changes. Essentially considered them lifetime fills.
You see this with lots of OEMs recently. Also much longer engine oil intervales.

Must be something to it, as you see relatively few reports of diff failures not related to racing.

Perhaps it is a matter of better machining/metalurgy/fluids.

Old oil change at 3,000 miles is old fashioned. Now need to wait until the oil change is indicated on the dash.

You couldn't be more wrong about your assessment. You need to hang out with people that know cars. All the good mechanics on YouTube are showing evidence that these extended or lifetime fills are killing engines, transmissions, differentials, and transfer cases.

 

[Olle]

This is the trend. The ZF 8-speeds used by BMW and many others were the first I saw get rid of the transmission fluid change, calling it a lifetime fluid. We have a Ram 1500 that has a ZF 8-speed and even in towing applications, Ram is still recommending no fluid change.

Indeed. Another contributing factor to the trend is that oil changes are not free of drawbacks. Aside from the direct cost of the procedure and time off the road, there are sometimes unsuccessful oil changes causing the car fail sooner than if it were left alone.

When I as a young man only drove used cars, I saw the result of many bad oil changes, as well as causing some myself by being too stingy to put a new plug washer, causing leaks and later engine or transmission failure as a result. Other things I've seen: Misinstalled/crushed oil filter, resulting in zero filtration, cross threaded oil plug where you couldn't access to re thread, causing replacement of the whole gearbox, incorrectly re-attached underbody shields causing mud buildup, rust and a long list of other problems. Mechanic who drained, got interrupted, forgot to fill and put the car together for the engine to catastrophically fail on the road 30 min later.

Despite these claims, fluid change kits have emerged for almost every application.

Personal story: 2 years ago I took our BMW X5 for what seemed to be a “stumbling” or a “misfiring” problem. The diagnosis from the dealer was that it needed a Transfer Case replacement, costing approx. $6,700. I was surprised as we bought the vehicle new, it had below average miles and is driven pretty gingerly by my wife. With some quick research, I read online that the Transfer Case was sensitive to the quality of the fluid inside, so I inquired about whether we should start by replacing the fluid. I was told a fluid change would be $700, and the fluid alone was approx. $200, but it is a "lifetime" fluid and there isn't a standardized replacement procedure.

I took the vehicle back (incurring a $160 diagnostic charge) and the next Saturday I changed the fluid myself. The BMW-brand fluid cost me $42 retail online. It took me a couple hours to change it. Afterwards, during the first minute of the test drive I wasn’t sure the problem was resolved, but after 15-20 minutes of varied driving the fresh fluid worked through the clutch pack inside the transfer case and the problem was completely gone. Completely. We couldn’t be happier with the result.

It seems to me that recommending a nearly $7K repair as the only course of action, when $42 in fluid did the job feels almost criminal, but this is the direction the industry is going.

Good job figuring that out!

 

[maximizese]

You couldn't be more wrong about your assessment. You need to hang out with people that know cars. All the good mechanics on YouTube are showing evidence that these extended or lifetime fills are killing engines, transmissions, differentials, and transfer cases.

Another one I know from experience was the 2007 Lexus Rx400h CVT. Manual stated the transmission fluid was a lifetime fluid, but most owners how replaced it at 60K miles saw a significant difference in both color and viscosity compared to the fresh fluid. Folks who changed it at 100K-150K miles during the timing belt change saw an even bigger difference in viscosity and suggest that somewhere between 60K-100K ought to be the fluid change interval despite Toyota stating it was a "lifetime" fluid. It was less than 2qts in my memory and the there was both a drain and fill hole...for something that was supposedly lifetime.

As for the Tesla, my original LDU was replaced nearly 4 years ago. I have 41K miles on the remanufactured "Q" revision, perhaps it's time to change out the fluid and examine the magnetic drain plug for metal shavings. I've noticed my drivetrain feeling a little "notchy" from 0-5mph as of late.

 

[dn325ci]

Indeed. Another contributing factor to the trend is that oil changes are not free of drawbacks. Aside from the direct cost of the procedure and time off the road, there are sometimes unsuccessful oil changes causing the car fail sooner than if it were left alone.

I hear you with that and understand, although my opinion is it's a pretty poor reason to avoid good maintenance practices on the off chance somebody doesn't put it back together right. What percentage of the time do you think that happens? I'd say 5% is awfully high. I, too, am a mechanical engineer by training.