Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[jerjozwik]

those who have actually started the p90d battery replacement, please add your driving habits and replacement experiences to the p90d battery replacement thread. thanks.

 

[Jeffgtx]

How can constantly providing remanufactured pack replacements be cheaper than providing a more robust design and forgoing any sort of upgrade charge?

 

[JRP3]

My guess is they've done some calculations and figured the number of people actually likely to push their cars to failure is low enough to gamble on.

 

[lolachampcar]

and remember, their first attempt at addressing this issue was to simply remove enough power that you could not drive a failure so likely they have not had enough time to implement a truly corrective plan of action.

 

[LittoDevil]

At the rate I'm going I'll get a new "reman" pack every 1.5-2 years =D...

And yes i can confirm the reman pack stays with you.. otherwise they would have given me my loaner pack back (I said loaner because I'm the only one that has used that one loaner pack they have.. haha) but since they are replacing it.. I get to drive my car until the service center gets the reman pack and put in the Luda upgrade.. ..

Larry

 

[TIppy]

Looks like Tesla is going to have to step up its game.

2018 Dodge Challenger SRT Demon
you get what Dodge claims is the fastest 0-60 mph time of any production car at 2.1 seconds. That launch will produce the most acceleration g-force of any production car, enough to lift the front wheels into the air for a Guinness World Record 2.92 feet. Keep your foot down and the Demon will set the fastest production car quarter-mile time in 9.65 seconds and 140 mph, as certified by the National Hot Rod Association.

 

[LittoDevil]

Tippy, it's always going to be a back and forth challenge and it's awesome! We ultimately win as a consumer ... I can't wait to see what the next Tesla Roadster will do.. haha..

Larry

 

[AWDtsla]

How can constantly providing remanufactured pack replacements be cheaper than providing a more robust design and forgoing any sort of upgrade charge?

...and how can that be cheaper than cycling that many ludicrous runs in a lab setting and fixing the problem before selling it to customers? We're not talking about trying to test thousands of cycles over 8 years, they could get through that testing in days? Basic engineering rigor. 3068 rolling mashes times 5 minutes discharge/charge/cooldown per cycle = 4 hours of test. You'd think they'd just keep running that until failure and see how many cycles they got out of it, and what failed.

 

[whitex]

...and how can that be cheaper than cycling that many ludicrous runs in a lab setting and fixing the problem before selling it to customers? We're not talking about trying to test thousands of cycles over 8 years, they could get through that testing in days? Basic engineering rigor. 3068 rolling mashes times 5 minutes discharge/charge/cooldown per cycle = 4 hours of test. You'd think they'd just keep running that until failure and see how many cycles they got out of it, and what failed.

Silicon Valley company. I've worked long enough for such companies to realize they operate on the "semi-controlled chaos" theory, and sometimes great things come out, other times not so great or nothing comes out. It never seizes to amaze me, kind of like life emerged from primordial goo.

 

[lolachampcar]

Yep, you do just enough engineering to pull it off and, sometimes, it isn't quite enough engineering. The arrogance comes from trying to fix your screw up by taking the feature away from your customer (without notification or consent) via an update that "enhances" that customer's ownership experience (as opposed to enhancing your warranty liability exposure).

I wish Elon was better than that.

 

[JRP3]

...and how can that be cheaper than cycling that many ludicrous runs in a lab setting and fixing the problem before selling it to customers? We're not talking about trying to test thousands of cycles over 8 years, they could get through that testing in days? Basic engineering rigor. 3068 rolling mashes times 5 minutes discharge/charge/cooldown per cycle = 4 hours of test. You'd think they'd just keep running that until failure and see how many cycles they got out of it, and what failed.

If it's the cells themselves which are failing under that load there may be no fix currently available, other than to reduce the load.

 

[favo]

It makes me wonder if the decision to delay production of the Model 3 performance version until after RWD and AWD is related to re-engineering efforts to deal with the added stress. Or possibly just more testing to see what the new drivetrain and batteries can take.

 

[TIppy]

If it's the cells themselves which are failing under that load there may be no fix currently available, other than to reduce the load.

An earlier poster said he saw that the reason was to protect the bond wire welds.

 

[jerjozwik]

so what your saying is, AP1 beta testing self drive features, PxxD beta testing performance models?


after writing that, it bothers me... less? if it means it helped tesla produce these cars one year earlier i think im actually ok with that so log as they stop dicking around with the software and continue repairing under warranty.

 

[JRP3]

An earlier poster said he saw that the reason was to protect the bond wire welds.

Sure but we've heard "official" reasons for parts failures before which weren't the complete story. (Remember the drive unit "fix" of a few washers and a cable tie that didn't stop the failures?)

 

[jerjozwik]

i get to be one of the cool kids now!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Update on my "Avoid Hard Acceleration" error... I have been contacted by Tesla and setup an appointment next week to replace my battery pack with a re-manufactured pack. There was some confusion as to whether that re-manufactured pack would stay with me or if I would eventually get my original pack back. Tesla has confirmed that in this case the re-manufactured pack is permanent; you will not get your original pack back. Also, they will need to re-install the Ludicrous upgrade on the re-manufactured pack prior to installing in my car. There are likely no engineering changes to the re-manufactured pack so if I continue to drive it like I do and draw high amps then this could happen again in the future. This scenario is covered under the 8-year/unlimited mile warranty.

Recently (on March 26, 2017), I happened to do some pretty good power output testing prior to this error so I plan to redo those tests on the re-manufactured pack and see how they compare.

Thanks for all the updates guys.

@benjiejr, did Tesla proactively contact you without you contacting them first? I know they said they would and your message sounds like the contacted you after the error proactively, but just confirming?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

It makes me wonder if the decision to delay production of the Model 3 performance version until after RWD and AWD is related to re-engineering efforts to deal with the added stress. Or possibly just more testing to see what the new drivetrain and batteries can take.

Good point. It might also jive with Elon's comments playing down Model 3 performance... who knows what their original intent was, but maybe now they have decided to be a lot more conservative with the Model 3 Performance model to begin with - fixing a few thousang S's and X's is one thing, half a million Model 3 Performance cars would be quite a different problem...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

An earlier poster said he saw that the reason was to protect the bond wire welds.

Sure but we've heard "official" reasons for parts failures before which weren't the complete story. (Remember the drive unit "fix" of a few washers and a cable tie that didn't stop the failures?)

I agree with you @JRP3 that the official version of events - especially an early one - is often wrong. Tesla has been known to mislead on many an occasion.

That said, the concept of re-built packs being used to fix the issue suggests to me there is something they can re-build. If the damage was on cell-level, it would sound like perhaps refurbishing would not be worth the trouble? At least beyond re-using the casing or something...

If the problem was the wiring, perhaps that would be a better re-build target? Re-use the cells, but re-do/reinforce/repair the wiring/welds?

Just wild speculation based on very limited data and even more limited knowledge. Comments welcome.

 

[JRP3]

I don't think Tesla would bother to replace individual bond wires or replace individual cells. More likely repairs would be at the module level not cell level, which would not improve the overall durability of the pack unless all module were replaced with upgraded ones.