Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[Andyw2100]

Tesla WILL make this right...

I can think of 691 reasons why I wouldn't count on that.

 

[thegruf]

Not sure if this was brought up - So if I purchase an inventory P90DL Model S or X, do I need to inquire about how many launches are left or if the power is already limited? I assume inventory cars (aka demos/loaners) have been LCed more than average.

^^ now that's a damn good question - and I would say get the answer in writing!

except I doubt you will get anything more than blank looks from the SC staff

 

[lolachampcar]

and what you will get in writing is "we will limit it when we feel we should"

 

[thegruf]

cynic !

 

[stopcrazypp]

I suspect Tesla will not budge on this one, will say no more about the "counter" and will simply ride out the storm. The smart people at Tesla specifically made the changes quietly knowing only a very few would figure it out. A "fix" program with cars returning gets a lot of press. Batteries failing gets a lot of press. A few disgruntled customers that will not take legal action gets zip.

I think that is the calculus or at least it would be mine if my customers came easy and I had no moral "problems" with doing such things. (for the record, my companies have always had to work their asses off for customers and I can not look people in the face and tell them its raining when I am actually peeing on them).



thegruf,

That P falling off thing is just too funny. I swim in the performance car guys/gals circles. When you are charging a $40K premium for your bad boy, I really do not think a P falling off caveat is going to fly. I guess we will see.

Cynical view, but I agree. They would get far more bad press if they made a big deal about this and it would cost them far more money because this is an issue that in general would not affect many people (even 90D owners). If they went public they would have to do some sort of fix for all 90D owners. They would much rather deal with this down low and most owners would never even see the counter (and the general public won't understand the nuances anyways; it took some active participation in this thread to understand the details of this issue).

The public also has little sympathy for people with $100k+ performance cars (the $100k claim is valid in this case given we are discussing P models with Ludicrous) complaining about a 0.3 second difference in 1/4 mile (which in the ICE world would be well within the margin of error). We already knew that from the whole horsepower and rollout controversy (which affected far more cars and had far more media coverage).

 

[JRP3]

Agree with lola and stop. Unfortunately it probably makes more sense for Tesla to handle this on an individual basis unless this somehow blows up in the press. Not that I think that's the right way to handle it. Maybe they'll surprise us and do the right thing.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Agree with lola and stop. Unfortunately it probably makes more sense for Tesla to handle this on an individual basis unless this somehow blows up in the press. Not that I think that's the right way to handle it. Maybe they'll surprise us and do the right thing.

Unfortuantely the precendence (how the P85D hp case was handled), Tesla would try to mend fences with a blog post explaining it away, unless sued like in Norway - if it doesn't go away by staying quiet. Is there anything different this time that might suggest a diferent outcome?

 

[yak-55]

I suspect Tesla will not budge on this one, will say no more about the "counter" and will simply ride out the storm. The smart people at Tesla specifically made the changes quietly knowing only a very few would figure it out. A "fix" program with cars returning gets a lot of press. Batteries failing gets a lot of press. A few disgruntled customers that will not take legal action gets zip.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind about this. (Again) waiting for Tesla "to do the right thing" is the definition of insanity. Their track record in these areas is abundantly clear, and each time it has "worked" for them in the past has only stiffened their resolve. You will not even get a bogus blog from the CTO on this one ....

 

[smac]

....Is there anything different this time that might suggest a diferent outcome?

They learnt their lesson with the Norwegian blowback ?

 

[lolachampcar]

Tesla is all about making sure they treat everyone the same when it comes to not budging on their pricing (except when the sales people do it without management's permission to make end of Q numbers - but Elon got mad and read them the riot act on that one). Now if the Norwegian's get together and force a settlement, there is no acknowledgement of that in the US and zero consideration given to owners in the US trying to politely address the very same concern in an one on one basis.

In short, nope, no lesson learned.

I'm with Yak on this one; we're not even going to get a bogus JB blog post on this one.

 

[P85DEE]

I suspect Tesla will not budge on this one, will say no more about the "counter" and will simply ride out the storm. The smart people at Tesla specifically made the changes quietly knowing only a very few would figure it out. A "fix" program with cars returning gets a lot of press. Batteries failing gets a lot of press. A few disgruntled customers that will not take legal action gets zip.....

Yes.

They'll likely keep as quiet about this as they can, for some of the reasons that I mentioned in an earlier post.

The only way they do anything about this, is if enough people are affected by it, and if enough of those people make a fuss over it.

Most of the cars that they sell are not this particular model, and of those who own it, the way that this is being done, many owners will never even know about it. Won't notice any performance decrease, and won't test for any.

Of the ones who do, many will move on.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Talking of reactions, I think the most obvious example of reactions to Tesla's failings is the recognition of their overly optimistic public schedules. That has been running longest and also affected most people. This has taken the rather ironic twist that it is so given Testa will miss their self-imposed public (marketing?) deadlines that some commenters are mad at other commenters (not at Tesla) for failing to factor this in and that were instead taking Tesla for their word.

I guess the Performance specs are quickly become another such area where it will simply become the norm at not really taking Tesla seriously at the specs. The P85D case being the biggest and thus giving best idea of the types of reactions. People seem to start factoring in the reality that Tesla may not quite be reporting the reality on the specs and that things change over time much more dramatically than with other brands. "Everyone else does it too", "doesn't really matter as only Range is important", "MotorTrend"...

Maybe it will not cost Tesla too much as long as they are the only game in town.

It might cost loyalty once they are not.

 

[AWDtsla]

Maybe it will not cost Tesla too much as long as they are the only game in town.

It might cost loyalty once they are not.

If BMW made an equivalent car with an equivalent charging network, I'd already be gone.

 

[winfield100]

and what you will get in writing is "we will limit it when we feel we should"

this hoohah reminds me of a "gentleman" i met in the late 1960's who had bought a Chevy Corvette
He was driving it about 135mph (~210kph) for 1.5 hours and blew the engine, so the y gave him another engine (warrenty) and he did it again, abused the vehicle and destroyed the engine AGAIN, and was complaining the y wouldnt replace the engine, for free,again
ie
be responsible
and
"kwit 'chur bitchin'"

 

[Andyw2100]

be responsible
and
"kwit 'chur bitchin'"

If Tesla was being responsible we wouldn't be bitching.

 

[winfield100]

If Tesla was being responsible we wouldn't be bitching.

having been driving for ~55 years, I become aware that certain actions are "hard on a vehicle"
"laying rubber and squealing the tires" in an ICE gets you an expensive bill for tires
excessive, unnecessary, acceleration constantly wears on vehicles in various ways.

Some of us cannot afford to trash our vehicles or shorten their lives with irresponsible behavior
You DO realize Tesla replaces broken/wornout parts

Sometimes adults have to intervene when children try to destroy expensive things.
sometimes subtly, sometimes overtly

stop whining, own up to YOUR responsibility.
Just because you CAN, doesnt mean you SHOULD

 

[AnxietyRanger]

having been driving for ~55 years, I become aware that certain actions are "hard on a vehicle"
"laying rubber and squealing the tires" in an ICE gets you an expensive bill for tires
excessive, unnecessary, acceleration constantly wears on vehicles in various ways.

Some of us cannot afford to trash our vehicles or shorten their lives with irresponsible behavior
You DO realize Tesla replaces broken/wornout parts

Sometimes adults have to intervene when children try to destroy expensive things.
sometimes subtly, sometimes overtly

stop whining, own up to YOUR responsibility.
Just because you CAN, doesnt mean you SHOULD

You do realize Tesla themselves sold the Launch Mode in question. They did not specify a numeric limitation, nor a warranty limitation. They did not even ship this limitation in the software originally. They simply changed the product after the fact.

I guess we agree someone should be the adult and intervene, and someone is being the inresponsible child, but the disagreement is on whom to call which.

 

[Andyw2100]

You DO realize Tesla replaces broken/wornout parts

Sometimes adults have to intervene when children try to destroy expensive things.
sometimes subtly, sometimes overtly

stop whining, own up to YOUR responsibility.
Just because you CAN, doesnt mean you SHOULD

First of all, please don't make this personal. I don't even own a P90DL, and I have never used Launch Mode on my P85DL. My wife and I drive the P85DL like complete wimps. Our lifetime wh/mi is 320, and that includes driving in extremely cold winters, and some driving before torque sleep was introduced. And, of course, it includes perhaps twenty to thirty 0-60+ launches, to demonstrate the car to others. So I am not directly affected by this limitation.

My concern--my whining, as you call it--is because I see what Tesla is doing as being wrong. Just wrong. They sold people one car, and then because of data they gathered after the fact, decided to limit the cars' capabilities. If you can not see why that is wrong our views differ so much that there just isn't any more to discuss.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

^ ...and did so clandestinely, without any pre-announcement, not even after sale when the limit was being silently rolled out.

 

[P85DEE]

Talking of reactions, I think the most obvious example of reactions to Tesla's failings is the recognition of their overly optimistic public schedules. That has been running longest and also affected most people. This has taken the rather ironic twist that it is so given Testa will miss their self-imposed public (marketing?) deadlines that some commenters are mad at other commenters (not at Tesla) for failing to factor this in and that were instead taking Tesla for their word.

The interesting thing about this, is that the other upstart, Lucid, and the "phoenix" FIsker, are liable to be worse at their schedules than Tesla ever was.

The other companies throwing their hats into the EV ring are "old hat". GM, Ford, BMW, Mercedes, they're "old hat" and don't grab the EV headlines like Tesla does.

In a lot of ways, Tesla is in the old catbird's seat. And the "worse" part of that is......... they know it.

The big thing Tesla in the news right now, is what is going on at the Gigafactory. Chopping a few people's power....people who are making themselves either knowingly or unknowingly a potential warranty headache...........in the overall scheme of things........what's that???

I guess the Performance specs are quickly become another such area where it will simply become the norm at not really taking Tesla seriously at the specs. The P85D case being the biggest and thus giving best idea of the types of reactions. People seem to start factoring in the reality that Tesla may not quite be reporting the reality on the specs and that things change over time much more dramatically than with other brands. "Everyone else does it too", "doesn't really matter as only Range is important", "MotorTrend"...

Maybe it will not cost Tesla too much as long as they are the only game in town.

It might cost loyalty once they are not.

Performance specs, and I'm not talking about "horsepower numbers" here, I'm talking about "manufacturer's results stated for traditional performance metrics". In other words, quarter mile times, 0-60 times, etc., are something that traditionally are difficult to hold an auto manufacturer to because of the many variables involved.

For many a performance vehicle, there are in turn many owners who will never get near the popular magazine results, nor the manufacturer's stated results, and only a few owners will even attempt. This is not unique to Tesla. I've seen it elsewhere too.

Manufacturer's stated performance numbers, and magazine numbers, perhaps none more "notorious" than 0-60, are typically and now almost routinely utilized for "bragging rights" and one-upmanship amongst fans and owners of one vehicle vs another. This is done either in face to face discussions, or in the last couple to three decades, internet discussions.

But there are two common threads amongst many a manufacturer's stated results for recognized performance metrics.

The first is that proportionately, perhaps very few actual owners will even attempt to duplicate the manufacturer's stated results in all listed metrics, or even in some listed performance metrics.

The second is, of those who try, a percentage less than 100%, and many times significantly less than 100%, will be successful at duplicating the manufacturer's results.

If BMW made an equivalent car with an equivalent charging network, I'd already be gone.

You and maybe a few others too.

But that's just it. BMW doesn't make an equivalent car with an equivalent charging network. And doesn't appear to be anywhere near close. And perhaps won't be for a long time.

Tesla is in the old catbird's seat. They're on their high horse.......and daring anyone to knock them off of it.