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Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

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Thanks Ingineer, great informative posts.
Since we're talking about battery capacities and launch limitations, could you also comment about launch limitation in 60/70/75 cars?
I drove a S75 and noticed that how slow was 0-60. Especially 0-30. 0-30 felt much slower than my old Bmw 630. It was like the car didn't want to move first 1-2 seconds.

I think it's been dialed back personally. My 60 feels slower now than when new in that initial 0-20 range (2014 UK car.) I think it happened sometime around the 75 launch.

I know this is completely non-scientific but I got smoked at the lights the other day by an A6 Diesel :( When the car was new nothing could get a jump on it from the lights...
 
You can't sell someone something, and then after the sale, by active or passive remote means, turn it into something less than what you sold them.

I don't see a legal leg to stand on here.

They have no choice but to offer him an adjustment.

OK here's a moral conundrum...

My car came with dual chargers enabled (I only paid for single), but due to a bug in the earliest RHD firmware. Subsequently Tesla realised their mistake and remotely disabled them.

Now as the car I drove away from the lot in had them and we'd both signed off on the delivery, should Tesla re-enable them?


(** Note whilst the above is true, I'm not in the slightest bit bothered about it, I've not needed the facility in nearly 3 years, and I'll be trading the car in soon where no doubt the CPO'd version of my car will have dual chargers for the next owner)
 
Wow... what a thread to catch up on!

My take FWIW is this is all the fault of falcon wing doors, (and before you all think I've lost my mind), here is my thesis:

Back in the run up to the P85D (which remember was a big secret) Tesla were having huge headaches, both with the X design but also the strain it was putting on the business's financials. They desperately needed some razzmatazz.

They had some X drive train mule cars in the R&D department had found they could get crazy 0-60 times. They also had been forced to put emergency braking on the cars (for EU crash ratings) and people had started to spot the new radar units.

What better way than to create some fantastic column inches than to make claims about the iconic McLaren F1 as a performance benchmark, as well as continue their "silicon valley heritage" narrative by exploiting the last drops out of the Mobileye kit, in a press spectacular.

Neither of these had gone under nearly enough testing, but the scene was set, and product announced as though it was ready.

From that point forward they have been chasing their tail (or should that be tale) in trying to deliver on those bold claims. Maybe with the P100D and AP2 we are finally there.
 
Is that aimed at me ?

If so this is an issue that happened to a handful of early UK cars. Tesla got in a pickle here in the UK as we received govt. free grants for 32A/240v single phase EVSE's installed at our homes. However the original EU onboard chargers could only charge at 16A 240v per phase.

Soo they shipped all cars with dual chargers, this allowed the cars to split the 32A across the 2 chargers (7kW). However there was nothing in the firmware on delivery to stop us plugging our cars into 3 phase supplies and getting 3x32A (22kW), instead of the advertised max for a single charger car of 3x16A (11kW).

Someone posted this discovery, and those that had paid got upset and demanded their money back. Caught between a rock and a hard place Tesla decided to patch in a flag to show if dual chargers had been paid for, and retrospectively disabled them OTA. (And in true Tesla fashion cocked it up and disabled half the wrong cars, but that's a different story :) )

From that point on it was quite clear to me from Tesla's POV "All your cars are belong to us"
 
Is that aimed at me ?

If so this is an issue that happened to a handful of early UK cars. Tesla got in a pickle here in the UK as we received govt. free grants for 32A/240v single phase EVSE's installed at our homes. However the original EU onboard chargers could only charge at 16A 240v per phase.

Soo they shipped all cars with dual chargers, this allowed the cars to split the 32A across the 2 chargers (7kW). However there was nothing in the firmware on delivery to stop us plugging our cars into 3 phase supplies and getting 3x32A (22kW), instead of the advertised max for a single charger car of 3x16A (11kW).

Someone posted this discovery, and those that had paid got upset and demanded their money back. Caught between a rock and a hard place Tesla decided to patch in a flag to show if dual chargers had been paid for, and retrospectively disabled them OTA. (And in true Tesla fashion cocked it up and disabled half the wrong cars, but that's a different story :) )

From that point on it was quite clear to me from Tesla's POV "All your cars are belong to us"

How is this even the same thing? Do you not understand the ethical argument of taking away something you paid for, versus something that was loaned to you?
 
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@AWDtsla Yes I get the fact I received something more than I paid for for a brief period of time. (and of course it isn't the same thing as people not getting what they paid for). What did not happen is Tesla did not contact me to let me know there had been a mistake, a simple phone call is all it would have taken.

Rightly or wrongly I viewed it in the same way as if I bought a new car with an alloy spare wheel instead of a steel one. I'd driven off not noticing, having signed all the paperwork and both parties were happy with the deal (even though there was an error unknown to either at the time). Later the dealer realised their mistake, and rather than talk to me about it they swapped my spare wheel in the middle of the night, to put the deal back to how it should have been.

What I am really trying to highlight is the power Tesla has with OTA, and how it needs to be treated with a bit more sensitivity and transparency.

I will leave aside the fact under UK distant selling rules that if goods or services cannot be delivered as ordered then a substitute of equivalent or better should be given. In my case single charger UK cars were not available at time of delivery, so a dual charger car met that legal requirement for the delivered good. Retrospectively changing it's behaviour without notice is what upset me.
 
@AWDtsla Yes I get the fact I received something more than I paid for for a brief period of time. (and of course it isn't the same thing as people not getting what they paid for). What did not happen is Tesla did not contact me to let me know there had been a mistake, a simple phone call is all it would have taken.

Rightly or wrongly I viewed it in the same way as if I bought a new car with an alloy spare wheel instead of a steel one. I'd driven off not noticing, having signed all the paperwork and both parties were happy with the deal (even though there was an error unknown to either at the time). Later the dealer realised their mistake, and rather than talk to me about it they swapped my spare wheel in the middle of the night, to put the deal back to how it should have been.

What I am really trying to highlight is the power Tesla has with OTA, and how it needs to be treated with a bit more sensitivity and transparency.

I will leave aside the fact under UK distant selling rules that if goods or services cannot be delivered as ordered then a substitute of equivalent or better should be given. In my case single charger UK cars were not available at time of delivery, so a dual charger car met that legal requirement for the delivered good. Retrospectively changing it's behaviour without notice is what upset me.

Ethics does not change regardless of the power of OTA.
 
Just a quick answer to my question that I have not confirmed after reading the past 48 pages.
This limit applies to P90DL model X as well as model S but not any P100DL?

Thats what I was originally told by Tesla but now they have added a disclaimer to the order page in reference to performance cars and the only one they sell is a P100D now so.... id say it applys to P100D as well. Ive enquired with my original source and am still awaiting a response...

Thank you.

Though that message still refers to what Tesla told him, not what his own experience was. But I agree it seems @NSX1992 was mistaken on that one. The question (in the P100D disclaimer aftermath) being, is this limited to Launch Mode only.

@Tech_Guy - is your view that your power limit is the result of Launch Mode only or due to other spirited driving/launching as well? I.e. do you think Tesla's public position that only Launch Mode affects this power limitation is accurate?

I have avoided launch mode since being informed that it is the cause and my power has continued to decrease!! Its now doubled my original power loss from 40 Hp to 80-89 hp lost with just spirited driving and launching I've even been avoiding max battery power mode until my recent test to discover my power loss had doubled!!
 
OK here's a moral conundrum...

My car came with dual chargers enabled (I only paid for single), but due to a bug in the earliest RHD firmware. Subsequently Tesla realised their mistake and remotely disabled them.

Now as the car I drove away from the lot in had them and we'd both signed off on the delivery, should Tesla re-enable them?


(** Note whilst the above is true, I'm not in the slightest bit bothered about it, I've not needed the facility in nearly 3 years, and I'll be trading the car in soon where no doubt the CPO'd version of my car will have dual chargers for the next owner)

Let's take it a step further.

Let's say that when you wrote the final check that you accidentally wrote it for $10K short of what the numbers in the contract called for, and the people at the service center where you picked the car up, failed to recognize the error, all the papers were signed, and you drove off in the car.

Tesla realizes their mistake a couple of days later.

Should you be able to keep the car even though you paid $10K less than what you were supposed to?

I would hope that you would not attempt such. You would not get away with it. At least not in the U.S.

Now let's turn it around.

Let's say that you wrote that check for $10K more than what you were supposed to, and neither you nor Tesla recognized the error until a month later.

Should Tesla be able to keep your $10K until you call them and ask for it back?

How about if you never call back?

So I don't see it as a "moral conundrum here.
 
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How is this even the same thing? Do you not understand the ethical argument of taking away something you paid for, versus something that was loaned to you?

Loaned?????

Arguably it wasn't even "loaned" to him.

He got something that he didn't pay for by accident, and when those who gave it to him realized the error, they took back what was rightfully theirs.
 
@AWDtsla Yes I get the fact I received something more than I paid for for a brief period of time. (and of course it isn't the same thing as people not getting what they paid for). What did not happen is Tesla did not contact me to let me know there had been a mistake, a simple phone call is all it would have taken.

Rightly or wrongly I viewed it in the same way as if I bought a new car with an alloy spare wheel instead of a steel one. I'd driven off not noticing, having signed all the paperwork and both parties were happy with the deal (even though there was an error unknown to either at the time). Later the dealer realised their mistake, and rather than talk to me about it they swapped my spare wheel in the middle of the night, to put the deal back to how it should have been.

What I am really trying to highlight is the power Tesla has with OTA, and how it needs to be treated with a bit more sensitivity and transparency.

I will leave aside the fact under UK distant selling rules that if goods or services cannot be delivered as ordered then a substitute of equivalent or better should be given. In my case single charger UK cars were not available at time of delivery, so a dual charger car met that legal requirement for the delivered good. Retrospectively changing it's behaviour without notice is what upset me.

Why should they have to "talk to you" about something which belongs to them?

If your bank makes an error and puts in a $1,000.00 credit toward your bank account, should they have to "call you before they correct the error" and debit your account that $1,000.00 and take back what's rightfully theirs?

The bank would be well within their right to take back their $1,000.00 and correct your account balance.......in the middle of the night if they decided to, and then notify you later.
 
Thats what I was originally told by Tesla but now they have added a disclaimer to the order page in reference to performance cars and the only one they sell is a P100D now so.... id say it applys to P100D as well. Ive enquired with my original source and am still awaiting a response...



I have avoided launch mode since being informed that it is the cause and my power has continued to decrease!! Its now doubled my original power loss from 40 Hp to 80-89 hp lost with just spirited driving and launching I've even been avoiding max battery power mode until my recent test to discover my power loss had doubled!!
My best guess is that something else is wrong. I can understand they designed a software algorithm that prevents maximum power by reducing power to a new maximum. Not that it is ethical, just that I can see the logic. But not a design that would continue to dynamically reduce power post exceeding the LM limit.
This must be a case where the software to implement the LM reduction in power is flat broken.

Are you still getting the rated range as you were prior ?

You clearly have a fault that tesla should address.

I asked tesla if I never use LM will my power be reduced. They responded with basically a I don't think so.

I am awaiting a less ambiguous response.
 
I think it's been dialed back personally. My 60 feels slower now than when new in that initial 0-20 range (2014 UK car.) I think it happened sometime around the 75 launch.

I know this is completely non-scientific but I got smoked at the lights the other day by an A6 Diesel :( When the car was new nothing could get a jump on it from the lights...
Huh? Your 60 tesla you think has been limited?

I thought 60, 75, 100 had nothing to do with this specific issue?

It does feel like 60D x is "limited" in 0-20. Very ametuer opinion. Just curious if any other models are at all limited?
 
My best guess is that something else is wrong. I can understand they designed a software algorithm that prevents maximum power by reducing power to a new maximum. Not that it is ethical, just that I can see the logic. But not a design that would continue to dynamically reduce power post exceeding the LM limit.
This must be a case where the software to implement the LM reduction in power is flat broken.

Are you still getting the rated range as you were prior ?

You clearly have a fault that tesla should address.

Same range just less power... seems the power level is much flatter then I was wishfully guessing previously in assuming 100% soc with max batt ready would yield 450kw ish, in my tests the power level is almost flat no noteable increase at 95SOC with max battery ready car produced 435kw. This is almost a flat line of power vs the previous test max at 85 SOC 432kw
 
Same range just less power... seems the power level is much flatter then I was wishfully guessing previously in assuming 100% soc with max batt ready would yield 450kw ish, in my tests the power level is almost flat no noteable increase at 95SOC with max battery ready car produced 435kw. This is almost a flat line of power vs the previous test max at 85 SOC 432kw
Can you post graphs from tesla log?