Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[bhzmark]

Had a conversation with Tesla today, it was indicated that the same system that monitors the stress on the powertrain exist for the p100dl as the p90dl. This info is contrary to the email I received previously on the matter, that exempted the 100 from these limits! Ludicrous mode, max battery mode, and launch mode are all monitored for driveline stress. They would not / could not confirm there is a counter but rather that its a system thats designed to monitor multiple aspects of the car and adjust performance based upon use ware and aging of the components.


In fact if I had to guess, the 100 will hit the limits quicker as its putting more strain on the components... but we would need more clarity from Tesla to get the full picture here all I was told was that it uses the same monitoring system as the p90dl in the p100dl

Did you submit your decreased power as a service concern yet? What did the invoice say?

 

[Andyw2100]

Did you submit your decreased power as a service concern yet? What did the invoice say?

You know he did not. He has posted exactly what has transpired.

Every customer service issue does not result in an invoice or in paperwork. He called about his issue, and it was addressed via phone and email. There's nothing outside the ordinary about that.

Your continued attempts at misdirection aren't going to work here.

 

[bhzmark]

You know he did not. He has posted exactly what has transpired.

Every customer service issue does not result in an invoice or in paperwork. He called about his issue, and it was addressed via phone and email. There's nothing outside the ordinary about that.

Your continued attempts at misdirection aren't going to work here.

He hasn't yet denied that he did get a service invoice. You may think it is irrelevant and a fruitless waste of time. I disagree and want to either encourage him to share his service invoice or obtain one

I agree that those who only traffic in rumour, speculation and FUD, and have no interest in facts and evidence will have no interest in the certainty of a service invoice response.

 

[OnlyDataNoBS]

If my car was missing 50hp or 100hp the first thing I would do is bring it in for service.

I would sit in the car with the service advisor and probably his manager and demonstrate the issue. Then they would book the car in for service. A few days later they'd call me to get my car and it will either be fixed under warranty, or they'll tell me it's not fixed, why not, and what options I have to fix it and the cost. All of this would be documented in a Service Invoice.

I've had Service Invoices issued for things as minor as a missing valve stem cap on one tire. Everything I've ever had happen to any of my Tesla's has been documented on a Service Invoice of some sort, going back nearly ten years now.

But in the end, all I would really like is one data point right now: how much does Tesla want TechGuy (or anyone else) to pay to fix this problem? How can we get that data? I'd like to know my financial exposure to this issue. Because, if it's a $500 fix after 625 launches, and the counter gets reset, then frankly I don't care. If it's a >$20,000 fix (i.e. upgrade to P100DL and get another 625 launches), then I would. Life's short, so I'd like some more data here to see how much brain time this problem deserves.

Thanks and good luck to anyone affected

You know he did not. He has posted exactly what has transpired.

Every customer service issue does not result in an invoice or in paperwork. He called about his issue, and it was addressed via phone and email. There's nothing outside the ordinary about that.

Your continued attempts at misdirection aren't going to work here.

 

[JLan]

Well if it makes p100d folks feel any better who are a bit scared I just recieved in writing from Tesla that My P100D model X will not be restricted no matter how many times I use launch mode.

There will be higher than normal wear though on the batteries.. which will lead to a quicker degradation of the batteries but I think that is more than fair to accept.

 

[OnlyDataNoBS]

Well if it makes p100d folks feel any better who are a bit scared I just recieved in writing from Tesla that My P100D model X will not be restricted no matter how many times I use launch mode.

There will be higher than normal wear though on the batteries.. which will lead to a quicker degradation of the batteries but I think that is more than fair to accept.

Would you mind posting an image of the letter? In my experience, Tesla has been quite good about warranty service due to battery degradation - usually writing "Good Will" as the "pay type" on the Service Invoice. I'd like to see if they specify how they will handle warranty claims due to battery degradation in cases where the car has been driven to its limits.

Thanks

 

[JLan]

I won't post the letter because of my own confidentiality ethics relating to correspondence. But I can tell you it gave me a huge sense of relief as my car is less than a month old and I just put a considerable amount of money into modifying the vehicle which means it wasn't an easy return for me.

Hope that news at least let's some of you sleep better.

 

[brianman]

Would you mind posting an image of the letter?

I don't know which letter JLan got, but regarding my inquiry about this topic the response I got was two-fold:

Direct response/interpretation:

it looks like the only vehicle that was limited was the P90D with Ludicrous

which included a forward:

To recap our conversation, using launch mode places an increased stress on the entire powertrain accelerating aging and fatigue of various components. The computer systems automatically track launch mode usage and continually estimate fatigue damage. Depending on how launch mode is used, the computer may eventually limit the available power during launch mode to protect the powertrain. Note that this is a common strategy also employed in other high performance cars. As discussed, upgrading to the P100D ludicrous will remove this limit and will not be limited in the future as the P100D does not have this limit for launch mode.

Somewhat more official than Elon's tweet.

 

[OnlyDataNoBS]

Thank you. Would you mind clarifying if it signed by a Service Manager, a Sales Manager, or someone in another role completely?

I won't post the letter because of my own confidentiality ethics relating to correspondence. But I can tell you it gave me a huge sense of relief as my car is less than a month old and I just put a considerable amount of money into modifying the vehicle which means it wasn't an easy return for me.

Hope that news at least let's some of you sleep better.

 

[JLan]

Thank you. Would you mind clarifying if it signed by a Service Manager, a Sales Manager, or someone in another role completely?

Delivery Orientation Specialist.

 

[JLan]

BTW.. I have a Model S P90DL as well.

 

[lolachampcar]

If the latest is true and it really is just the non-flex cell interconnected 1600ish amp batteries that are the problem then I no longer have standing. Still, not having a dog in this fight does not make it any easier to swallow the practice.

 

[OnlyDataNoBS]

Has Tesla refused Warranty Service to restore vehicles affected by the performance degradation to their original performance specifications? If so, at what level of management has the refusal come from?

Thanks

 

[Andyw2100]

I agree that those who only traffic in rumour, speculation and FUD, and have no interest in facts and evidence will have no interest in the certainty of a service invoice response.

I would certainly be interested in such an invoice. I just don't see any way for him to obtain one at this point.

 

[bhzmark]

I would certainly be interested in such an invoice. I just don't see any way for him to obtain one at this point.

I just don't see any obstacle to him obtaining one in the usual way.

 

[bhzmark]

Has Tesla refused Warranty Service to restore vehicles affected by the performance degradation to their original performance specifications? If so, at what level of management has the refusal come from?

Thanks

I think you mean ". . . the vehicle [singular] affected . . ."

Is there another one?

 

[Andyw2100]

I just don't see any obstacle to him obtaining one in the usual way.

The obstacle is that they have already addressed his situation and told him why his car is behaving as it is. At this point his issue is with Tesla policy, not finding out what is wrong with the car.

 

[P85DEE]

I won't post the letter because of my own confidentiality ethics relating to correspondence. But I can tell you it gave me a huge sense of relief as my car is less than a month old and I just put a considerable amount of money into modifying the vehicle which means it wasn't an easy return for me.

Hope that news at least let's some of you sleep better.

I wouldn't post up an image of the letter either for the reasons you state.

But glad to hear that the correspondence gave you peace of mind, and something to fall back on in the event that you should need it.

 

[AnonNJ]

@Tech_Guy - with the total summary of info available:

1. Your power reduction and statements directly to you from Tesla
2. My direct witness of 3 counters for my vehicle tied to above issue (page 60 of thread)
3. Tesla's sudden disclaimers
4. New L+ disclaimer

We are highly dependent on you, the most affected party, for what the resolution to this horrifying issue will become.

The way I see it, the path to resolution is this:

1. All P90DL owners should inquire of their service manager (highest authority at service center) for the counts from the performance counters on their car. We need this data.
2. Tech_Guy should either consider legal assistance or submit car for warranty repair. His car is broken. Please continue to share your progress. We need this data.
3. All P90DL owners should inquire high level Tesla directly, through twitter, and through automotive journalists about the matter until we are able to obtain a full policy statement or resolution on the matter.

It is absurd that I have NEVER used launch mode yet have consumed 92 uses, 15% of my launch counter, before my vehicle gets nerfed.

I feel bad for the P100DL+ guys. We don't know how the counter increments. Since my mixture score was 311.6, it is possible that the counters do not increment by "1". Every + launch could cost you all 5 or 10 or 100 increments. We don't know. And once you hit the limit, you no longer have an Insane or Ludicrous car.

 

[vgrinshpun]

The obstacle is that they have already addressed his situation and told him why his car is behaving as it is. At this point his issue is with Tesla policy, not finding out what is wrong with the car.

As I pointed out few times, they really did not address his situation as what is happening with Tech_Guy's car is not consistent and is not explained by Tesla correspondence. At this point (at least for Tech_Guy) the issue is very much what is happening with his car, not the Tesla policy.