Panel Gap vs Audi A4

[tyguy]

I watched the Engineering Explained YouTube video criticizing the M3 quality and was disappointed in how the creator measured gaps. He only measured in one spot per gap and eyeballed it with a caliper. I've also read complaints about Tesla gaps, which didn't match what I saw in my own M3 and the models I've seen in the showroom and in parking lots.

So, I decided to measure my black LR RWD against my 2013 black Audi A4 sedan, measuring each gap of each car in 3 places using a digital caliper, including these spots:

• Hood to fender
  
• Fender to front door
  
• Front door to rear door
  
• Rear door to 3/4 panel
  
• Trunk to 3/4 panel

And then I ran a little statistical analysis and came up with the following:

• Average gap over all panels was 3.504 mm for the Audi, and 3.358 mm for the Tesla, meaning the Tesla gaps were a bit tighter overall.
  
• The average gap on the driver side for the Audi was 3.374 mm and 3.635 mm for the passenger, with a difference of 0.261 mm. The average gap on the driver side of the Tesla was 3.435 mm and 3.281 mm for the passenger, with a difference of 0.154 mm. The Tesla was superior in side-to-side comparison of passenger side gaps to driver side gaps.
  
• The max gap of one measurement in one panel was 4.57 mm for the Audi (trunk lip) vs 4.62 for the Tesla (hood corner near the windshield), giving an edge to the Audi.
  
• Looking at the differences from passenger to driver side, and running a standard deviation calculation, the Audi came in at 0.402 versus 0.399 deviations for Tesla, meaning the Tesla was a bit more consistent in gaps between driver side and passenger side.
  
• I also examined the standard deviation within each panel gap using the three measurements. What I found was the Tesla had much more consistent spacing within each gap when looking at the three different measurements.

Nice job, Tesla.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I would say that misalignment issues are a much more widespread problem. My driver door was way off before it was fixed. I’ve looked at quite a few Model 3s and most have panel alignment problems. I don’t really get the obsession with panel gaps, having the doors line up with each other is way more important!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Case in point. Specific thing to look at here is the alignment of the body line (and of course the chrome trim). (A picture really is not worth 1000 words in this case.) It's nowhere close to correct (a few mm off) and quite obvious. Especially in the early morning sun when the misalignment of the panels results in the shadow from one body panel being cast onto the other due to the mismatch of the curves. It's fine, but eventually I'll have a Tesla service center take care of this. I figure it will be 6-9 months from now before I can drop it off, as it is not important. Still waiting on various unimportant parts that they have on order from my due bill.

Much more important than the gaps, I agree.

 

[Daniel in SD]

The only picture I have before it was fixed. I had forgotten how bad it was! The car I built myself has better alignment

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Seems a little worse than mine even.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Seems a little worse than mine even.

It's ok though because I did a statistical analysis on the driver door alignment and the standard deviation is zero.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I've never even considered panel alignment before Tesla, and I suspect the majority of others haven't either.

I've owned many vehicles in my 20 year driving experience...and never gave it a consideration. I suspect I'd be disappointed in my other vehicles if I had.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I've never even considered panel alignment before Tesla, and I suspect the majority of others haven't either.

I've owned many vehicles in my 20 year driving experience...and never gave it a consideration. I suspect I'd be disappointed in my other vehicles if I had.

I checked my 2 Chevy Sparks, my Highlander, and my old Subaru STi. For the body line alignment issue (the way the doors are hung on the vehicle), none of those other cars had such a problem. It's extremely obvious.

There's no reason to think that this is a big deal at all - Tesla can just adjust these doors easily at the service center, but it would be far more efficient and profitable for them, if they just did it at the factory. Eventually they will! I'm not worried about it. Just patiently waiting for a time when the dust cloud from the quarry next to the service center has been dampened down a bit so it doesn't end up on my car, and they have my other spare parts in stock, and it all aligns with the local PDR specialist being available to glue pull my dent. I figure I just have to wait six months or so. Really isn't a big deal as long as I can get between points A & B.

But similarly, there's no reason to think that this is an issue for other car companies, or that Tesla is doing just as well - the other companies have been building cars for a long time, and indeed, they make sure that with relatively few exceptions, they have no such issues. It's just an issue with the process Tesla is using to attach the doors.

 

[DrDabbles]

I've never even considered panel alignment before Tesla, and I suspect the majority of others haven't either.

I've owned many vehicles in my 20 year driving experience...and never gave it a consideration. I suspect I'd be disappointed in my other vehicles if I had.

I'd guess that more than half of the people we see complain about paint, panels, etc. have no idea what they're talking about or looking at, and like you say have never looked before. For the few of us that are a bit more particular, and are "car people", we've very likely got other people paying attention to a negative degree.

There was one post, I forget where, but the person was complaining about something like a 2 or 4 millimeter difference in gap size between different panels. The die, jig, and fixture requirements to make body panels and chassis components, and then weld them together, only to bolt more stamped parts on and have them all within 4mm is, like, not going to happen. That was the moment I realized the panel gap complaints were almost all by people that had no idea.

Obviously there are issues, and Tesla needs to figure out what is going on. But I'd bet they're more rare than we'd lead ourselves to believe.

• Average gap over all panels was 3.504 mm for the Audi, and 3.358 mm for the Tesla, meaning the Tesla gaps were a bit tighter overall.
• The average gap on the driver side for the Audi was 3.374 mm and 3.635 mm for the passenger, with a difference of 0.261 mm. The average gap on the driver side of the Tesla was 3.435 mm and 3.281 mm for the passenger, with a difference of 0.154 mm. The Tesla was superior in side-to-side comparison of passenger side gaps to driver side gaps.
  
• The max gap of one measurement in one panel was 4.57 mm for the Audi (trunk lip) vs 4.62 for the Tesla (hood corner near the windshield), giving an edge to the Audi.
  
• Looking at the differences from passenger to driver side, and running a standard deviation calculation, the Audi came in at 0.402 versus 0.399 deviations for Tesla, meaning the Tesla was a bit more consistent in gaps between driver side and passenger side.
  
• I also examined the standard deviation within each panel gap using the three measurements. What I found was the Tesla had much more consistent spacing within each gap when looking at the three different measurements.

Some things you aren't accounting for.

• Stylistic choices. Sometimes gaps are different sizes between brands on purpose.
• Average gap for a side of a car doesn't really make sense. Not only because average is a terrible statistic on average (sorry), but also because it doesn't account for design choices.
• Maximum gap is meaningless for the same reason as both points above.
• Minimum gap would be good to know for clearance issues. Like will two panels contact and destroy paint.
• You're going to have to show your work for the standard deviations here. What points did you collect, how did you compare the two, and your math of course.
• What are the tolerances designed for.

Consistency is what you're looking for. And the only real way to gauge that is to compare left to right. So for example the same point on the frunk, compare left to right, was the gap consistent. For things like doors, are they centered within their opening, and are they supposed to be. Running calipers down the middle of a gap doesn't really tell you much if you don't know what the target design is supposed to be. If the gap is supposed to decrease as you follow a panel, and your measurements show that, then it's fine. But if you have no idea that the gap is supposed to decrease, then how are you supposed to interpret the data you've collected?

 

[TeeEmCee]

I watched the Engineering Explained YouTube video criticizing the M3 quality and was disappointed in how the creator measured gaps. He only measured in one spot per gap and eyeballed it with a caliper. I've also read complaints about Tesla gaps, which didn't match what I saw in my own M3 and the models I've seen in the showroom and in parking lots.

So, I decided to measure my black LR RWD against my 2013 black Audi A4 sedan, measuring each gap of each car in 3 places using a digital caliper, including these spots:

• Hood to fender
  
• Fender to front door
  
• Front door to rear door
  
• Rear door to 3/4 panel
  
• Trunk to 3/4 panel

And then I ran a little statistical analysis and came up with the following:

• Average gap over all panels was 3.504 mm for the Audi, and 3.358 mm for the Tesla, meaning the Tesla gaps were a bit tighter overall.
  
• The average gap on the driver side for the Audi was 3.374 mm and 3.635 mm for the passenger, with a difference of 0.261 mm. The average gap on the driver side of the Tesla was 3.435 mm and 3.281 mm for the passenger, with a difference of 0.154 mm. The Tesla was superior in side-to-side comparison of passenger side gaps to driver side gaps.
  
• The max gap of one measurement in one panel was 4.57 mm for the Audi (trunk lip) vs 4.62 for the Tesla (hood corner near the windshield), giving an edge to the Audi.
  
• Looking at the differences from passenger to driver side, and running a standard deviation calculation, the Audi came in at 0.402 versus 0.399 deviations for Tesla, meaning the Tesla was a bit more consistent in gaps between driver side and passenger side.
  
• I also examined the standard deviation within each panel gap using the three measurements. What I found was the Tesla had much more consistent spacing within each gap when looking at the three different measurements.

Nice job, Tesla.

Groovy! Almost tempted to do a comparison against my Audis myself ... except I'm pretty sure that, after I get the car back from the SEVENTH alignment attempt, it will still be *sugar* compared to any one of them.

 

[timk225]

Panel gaps -- for those who just aren't satisfied with anything and need something to whine about.

 

[Zorg]

I Don't see the gaps while driving.

 

[DrDabbles]

I Don't see the gaps while driving.

Bingo. Extreme panel precision is for show cars and garage queens.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Panel gaps -- for those who just aren't satisfied with anything and need something to whine about.

Gaps maybe, alignment, not so much. Personally, when I spend 80k on a vehicle (which is nearly double what I have spent on my two prior vehicles, combined), I think the body lines should align correctly. I could have refused delivery if it really mattered, but I knew it could easily be fixed.

I’m absolutely satisfied with the car: I got exactly what I expected, and I also expected to be doing this kind of follow up before I ever laid eyes on my vehicle.

I also think egregious enough gaps are also a problem. I’ve inspected a lot of Model 3s, and I’ve only seen one or two with bad gap issues.

There is no reason Tesla should get a pass on this stuff, and Elon has said as much. He knows it must be fixed, it’s just lower on the triage list, still.