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performance 20" wheels

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by Perry, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. Perry

    Perry Member

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    I am configuring my Model 3. I know I will be getting the dual motor performance variant but have not decided whether I want to go with the performance upgrade for an extra $5000 which included 20" wheels.

    I prefer the 19" sport wheels for the following reasons but those are not offered with the dual motor performance variant.
    - I think 20" looks comically oversized
    - tire replacement are too expensive (since I will be going through them rather quickly the way I drive)
    - ride is too stiff
    - easy to damage rims when going over slight curbs
    - can't rotate tires since front/back are different sizes

    I asked a Tesla representative why they don't offer 19" wheels and they said because the performance model of the model 3 has more power and it needs the 20" wheels to put all that torque to the pavement. Yet they offer the 18" wheels standard so I think this is BS or they are talking out of their ass.

    My question is, would 19" sport wheels be enough to plant the torque of the performance model 3 to the ground or would I get wheel slippage on takeoff considering Elon stated that with a software upgrade he might get the 0-60 below the stated 3.5 sec.
     
  2. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    There no real difference in traction between 19" wheels and 20" wheels. However the summer tires that come with the 20" wheels are stickier than the all-season tires on the 19" wheels on the LR. You could always sell the 20" wheels to someone on the forum and take their 19" wheels in return assuming the 19" wheels fit over the larger brakes.
    It's unlikely the the performance version makes significantly more power to the rear than the LR. It uses the same motor, only bin sorted (the cream of the crop :D). The faster acceleration comes from the front motor.
     
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  3. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Save your $5000, instead spend around 1k to put the same model of tire the 20s come with on the stock 18s. You'll get a better ride and have $4000 extra in your pocket.
     
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  4. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #4 Xenoilphobe, Jul 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
    All my model S's have 19's, I dont have any issues "putting the power down". The 20 inchers are for looks - they are like high heels for the ladies, they look good, but dont increase performance and in some cases reduce performance. if you want to waste $5K, send it to me...





    Also why stop at 20's, if you are going for looks and dont care about performance get these 32's

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Perry

    Perry Member

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    If the performance version doesn't put significantly more power to the rear, then how do you explain the full second drop in the 0 to 60 over the dual motor non performance which also has front motor. 1 second difference when you're already at the low 4.5 sec is significant.
     
  6. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    Software.
    How do explain that the AWD only improves acceleration from 5.1s to 4.5s? Does the front motor only have 40hp?
    It's strange to me that they didn't make a smaller, cheaper rear drive unit for the AWD like they did with the S. I suspect that they'll do that in the future.
     
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  7. Perry

    Perry Member

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    So you're saying that all the non-performance dual motor models can do 0-60 in 3.5 or less but they are crippled on purpose by software? Then what's the purpose of binning the motors if they are all the same with only software changes?
     
  8. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Yes...that's pretty obvious by the fact that as far as Tesla has said, they're physically the same drive units in P and non-P AWD cars for the model 3, and then sorted by output after the fact. Meaning they expect that part to be capable for performance levels out of the box (otherwise nothing would "pass" the binning process)

    Warranty.

    By using the best motors in testing they increase the chances asking more of them won't necessitate a costly warranty replacement- given they're covered for 8 years/120k miles.

    Also- marketing- so they can claim there's a "difference" even though both cars get literally the same drive units as far as part numbers are concerned.... (because depending on their tolerance range it's entirely possible all drive units used in all AWD 3s are "good enough" for P use- since Tesla is unlikely to ever publish their testing we're unlikely to ever know this for sure unless/until they offer a "P upgrade" for AWD cars some day- and even then they can cover themselves by claiming they "test" the motors in the non-P before doing the upgrade)
     
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  9. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #9 Xenoilphobe, Jul 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
    Never seen the word Binning in the car world, but it makes sense with all the electronic components in a Tesla.
    Also those software controls protect their market segmentation between the S and the 3. Who would pay $150K for a car that would go 0 to 60 in 2.3 seconds, if they could get the same performance for half price?

    Product binning - Wikipedia
     
  10. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    Someone who wants a large luxury hatchback vs. a mid size sports sedan? The same person who would buy a BMW 750i over a BMW M3.
     
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  11. Perry

    Perry Member

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    That makes sense although don't you think it's possible that other parts are also upgraded for the P to support the software unlocked motors like better inverter, stronger gear reduction box to handle more power, or better battery cooling since the battery might get hotter.

    I would hate to think that the for $11,000 extra you get nothing different hardware wise other than the luck of the draw on a motor.
     
  12. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    I kinda view the P85+ as more of an M5 verse the luxobarge 750i.

    Either way Tesla can software load whatever car that want and I bet when the new M3 comes out they will reflash the P3D to beat it.
     
  13. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    No, because both of those are part of the drive unit- which Musks statement tells us are all the same drive units as the regular AWD cars, just sorted.

    I suppose that one is possible- though I've seen no mention or suggestion of it from any reliable source.


    Why? Tesla has done this type of thing repeatedly in the past.

    They already offered an $8500 software unlock on the late-production S60 that just unlocked the rest of the S75 battery the car came with from the factory (and did the same on the S70 at a lower price)

    IIRC we also saw this same thing on the P90D... $10,000 for adding L to the car, but it was physically the same car- just a software unlock for more performance.
     
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  14. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    You also get the option of a white interior and you get your car sooner. Welcome to Tesla pricing.
     
  15. Snow Drift

    Snow Drift Slip Start: [Activated]

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    20s are not performance anything, they are just heavy. You want small diameter, light weight and wide.

    18x9 and 245 or 255 wide summer tires would be much better.
     
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  16. PhaseWhite

    PhaseWhite Member

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    Perhaps the AWD could do 3.8 on average without the binned motors, some more, some less... Kind of like CPUs, sometimes you get one that can overclock a lot, and other times a dud. You pay a lot more for pre-binned high clock chips.

    The other aspect of this is expected warranty costs. There is a higher risk factor to Tesla in warranty obligations the more they unlock the performance.

    And truth be told, this is also about market segmentation. We saw with the 75D uncorking that they were actually nerfed, primarily to segment the lower priced version from the more expensive 90/100D.

    In this regards, there is hope for a Model 3 AWD uncorking at some point, probably after Tesla increases Model S/X performance (And Model 3PD gets a bump).
     
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  17. systemBuilder

    systemBuilder Member

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    #17 systemBuilder, Jul 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
    I didn't want the 20" rims but I definitely wanted the 19" or 20" rim-look and most importantly I wanted better tires and brakes and no 145 mph governor. Not that I planned to ever get anywhere near 155 mph. If Tesla offers a ludicrous+ upgrade in the future, I wanted my car to be eligible. So I bought the performance upgrade, mainly for the better brakes and tires, which caused problems many times for other owners at track days. Better pads and brake fluid seems to partially solve the brake overheating issue at the recent Refuel Laguna Seca Track day, where a Model 3 ran 1:48.

    I wouldn't be surprised if $1000 of the upgrade is for increased warranty claims coverage. After all the model S warns people that in Ludicrous mode there is increased wear on the drivetrain and battery of the car.

    I don't think anybody should worry about dropping $11,000 to get the fastest compact sports sedan 0-60 times - 10 Fastest Compact Cars. It matters not how Tesla achieves it. The important part is that it achieves the 0-60 time using factory-warranted parts and the car is a bargain at $71,000 for all that it can do.
     
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  18. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Since the P is just as quick with or without the 5k upgrade I'm not sure how any of the cost of the 5k upgrade would be for drivetrain warranty.

    As noted the 5k gets you wheels/tires, and brakes, and 10 mph higher top speed is all... unless you think folks are going to be driving between 145 and 155 so often it has measurable warranty impact somehow?

    I certainly think some of the original 11k to go from AWD to P might be toward future warranty cost though.


    The 3 isn't really a compact car though, it's midsized- see the EPA classification as such here-

    Fuel Economy of the 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range

    Full list of midsized cars here-
    Gas Mileage of 2018 Midsize Cars

    While the P3 is among the quickest (and certainly a good "buy") it's definitely not the quickest in its class.
     
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  19. Shizzrock

    Shizzrock Member

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    That list has an audi S8 and a Bentley Mulsanne in it, therefore it is erroneous regarding what a midsize car is. If a model 3 is a BMW 3 series competitor it's a compact sedan.
     
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  20. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    I mean, legally, no, it's not erroneous, it's authoritative.

    That list is literally what are legally defined as mid-sized cars in the US.

    You're certainly welcome to make up your own definitions, but they may not be as useful in discussion with others as objectively defined legal ones.
     
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