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Performance Upgrade Price Change!
- Thread starter booger
- Start date
Most of your post I agree with but I'd love to get 20 minutes before limiting on my M3P. Hopefully we'll get closer to that with Track Mode.
Huh? So far my bank disagrees with you.
I did the exact opposite and so far no response. P3D owner here and hopping to get upgraded PUP.
I'm a little bit curious how much extra heat would be produced by the theoretical "Binned Drive Unit". If it was true, would it have a significant effect on the duration before heat soak? I am not very knowledgeable about electric motors, so don't really understand the real world effect of "Highest Sigma Output" Does that mean that 2 similar motors, one with a higher Sigma Output makes more power/less heat/smoother power? Any motor gurus know this answer?
Is it possible that some drive units get very much hotter in 5-10 vs 15-20 minutes, while still being in spec?
Is it possible that some drive units get very much hotter in 5-10 vs 15-20 minutes, while still being in spec?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
There remains 0 actual evidence of any functional difference between the DU in a P and the DU in an AWD car- both of which have DUs with exactly the same part # according to Teslas own parts catalog.
I totally agree, but am curious as to the engineering and physics involved regardless.
caskater47
Member
While I'm not a mechanical engineer (I'm a computer engineer) I see it as similar to overclockable PC hardware. A lot of PC hardware is manufactured to the same spec but each piece will perform differently from one another. The reason comes down to unpredictable differences in the fabrication of parts at the factory. The results is that each component can have very different electrical and thermal limits. Intel for example will produce a bunch of chips meant to be i7 products. Then they test them and see how they perform. Some chips will have really high thermal limits and clock potential. So they'll bin those and sell them at a premium to overclockers and enthusiasts. Chips that don't perform well get downgraded and sold as budget products.
I imagine this process is much the same with these motors. It's impossible to produce exactly the same part every single time so each motor will have different limits based on the defects introduced during fabrication. The only way to know what those limits are is through testing.
Now whether or not Tesla is actually doing the QA necessary to properly bin these motors remains to be seen but there would be no difference in part numbers either way.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It's demonstrably not though.
Because Intel assigns a different PN to the CPUs that get sold as budget products. Because they're functionally different products
That's not the case with Model 3 drive units (for LR cars anyway- the SR/MR cars do get a different unit)
Of course there would.
If there was some standard a DU had to meet to be good enough for a P, and not all DUs did, then using the same PN for ALL DUs would mean a warranty replacement on a P could be anything with that PN, and quickly fail if it's not up to the standard required.
Therefore since we know they're all the same PN, we know they all must be sufficient for P requirements.
You are correct, a lesser quality motor will produce more heat for a given electrical input. The "sigma output" refers to the standard deviation in performance between motors. The motors are built to a design specification which establish minimum standards for what is considered a "good" motor. Any motors that do not meet spec are trashed. The good motors will all have some variation in their performance. The question is how wide is that variation? The reality is not that much, at least not nearly the variation you would see in electrical components such as a CPU where "binning" is more common. No way to know the variation unless Tesla releases manufacturing info which they will certainty never do.
If they were getting more than a few horsepower at 3 sigma I'd be very surprised. I'd be shocked if a 6 sigma motor (top 99.7%) was not in the single digits.
To me bottom line is that "binning" of motors isn't really buying you any performance gain. There may be an argument for longevity but even that is going to be minimal. All evidence points to drive units being the same across all the variants and that "binning" is not happening. Doesn't matter anyway, there is almost certainly very little benefit.
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Perry
Active Member
Its only funny if you spin it like you do. I said if it where designed like you say it would be trash. I do not believe it is designed like that hence I don't believe it's trash.
Perry
Active Member
Yes you can even see from the picture that I am at the Los Gatos supercharger. That's exactly where 9 ends. But I don't drive fast there in the residential area. I do it more in the mountains where there is no one.
For now still on stock everything P3D- although I will be changing to MPP rotors, MPP coilovers when they're ready, and Titan 7 19" 9.5 wheels.
For me it happens after 5 minutes and I get 10 dots which makes the car slower than an RWD M3.
Very good point. I had not thought about it that way. Maybe that's why the stock brakes have not fried yet. I will be sure to use your advice when I get my MPP rotors since they will be able to take the extra heat. Don't know about the stock ones.
Then I wonder why they increase regen in Track Mode. The more reason to have these Track Mode features split apart for more a la carte control.
Yep, that's exactly it.
I go about the same speed as you. Do you have the P+?
Don't know what that is?
What? You don't believe Elon? You should believe Elon over your bank.
He said you will be rebated. The people on this thread say you have to ask for it. Some got it.
I already asked, but... you know, I'm a just a P-minus...
astrowunder
Member
@Perry, I also have a P3D- (stealth). Your power consumption looks insane to me. I drive mine pretty hard but have never seen anything like that. OTOH, I'm in Wisconsin and haven't really tested it with high ambient temperatures, and my terrain here is relatively flat. I'm averaging a little over 300 wh/mile right now, but that's getting a bit skewed because of low temperatures- but maybe that's keeping me from overheating as well. It will be interesting to see what happens next summer.
astrowunder
Member
You were burning over 900 wh/mile for more than 12 miles straight- were you in ballistic mode? Trying to catch Rocket Man? Wow. I only hit that high a rate when I floor it from 0-60. You can't possibly have it floored for 12 miles in a row. I think it's worth a service call as well.
Wow. I only hit that high a rate when I floor it from 0-60. You can't possibly have it floored for 12 miles in a row. I think it's worth a service call as well.
caskater47
Member
I live in L.A. and am averaging 280wh/m since getting the car. I'm frequently launching it at red lights because the kids love the speed. I've also done some dodgy turns and a drift or two around town and have never seen the motors get anywhere near the thermal limit.
