PGE net metering plan

[mattack4000]

Hi,

I never got a full answer for this PGE net metering 2.0 question, I want to see if you guys can help.

If I over generate in peak and partial peak time, but I have all my usage at off peak and overall I am a consumer not a producer. Do I get full price for the power I generate at peak and partial peak? I am trying to calculate my ROI and I need to know if they give me .05 cents for my over production during peak and partial peak. At off peak I consume a lot of power. If I get full price for my overproduction, I could have a situation where i am a positive energy user, but my bill could be close to zero? Is that true or am I dreaming?

 

[thimel]

You get full price for your over production until you get to the point where PGE would owe you money. This isn’t quite exact as there is a minimum charge of about $10 per month that you must pay.

 

[cwied]

With NEM 2.0 there is also a "non-bypassable charge" (NBC) per kWh you draw from the grid that gets added on to the minimum charge. I think it's a little more than 2 cents/kWh.

PG&E will not refund any money if you generate enough to offset all your charges. The wholesale buyback only comes into play if you generate more in kWh than you used and it's only the kWh excess they pay you for. This means you could actually have a significant negative balance at the annual true-up and get nothing back because usage in off-peak exceeded generation at peak in kWh. This is why the sweet spot from a financial point of view is to offset less than 100% of your annual usage.

 

[mattack4000]

Thanks

 

[mattack4000]

Here is my situation. I have an efficient house with a small efficiency solar system already (4 years old). I currently use about 100kwh peak on average, 130kwh partial peak and 800 kwh off peak net of the solar, that makes bill somewhere around $150-$200. ($.47x100+$.29x130+$.14*800=around $200). Since Tesla doesn't want to remove it, the only option I have is adding a second system in parellel to my current one. Tesla can offer to sneak an extra panel or two next to my current unit and 8 more to the side of the house facing east. With the 3.3kw system they are offering, I am guessing I will minimum generate 10kwh per day. It should be good enough to wipe my partial peak usage and eat into some of that peak charges. I will also be able to generate in the negatives for partial peak times too. I don't think I will collect a lot of credit, but it should offset some of the other charges. I am guessing my bill would lower to about $50 a month after second set of panels. What do you guys think? The price after tax credit is less than $10K, so it will take 5-6 years to break even, but I am also shielded from PG&E's increase.

What do you guys think?

 

[Late2theGame]

I just added a second system and 2 powerwalls. I ended up putting some of the new panels west facing and preferred that over east facing due to fog in the mornings and better alignments with peak-periods if facing west. Are you west (and south) facing roof-parts taken or not possible?

My second system almost exactly doubles my prior system and so far it has worked out that way. If you take the ratio of your new system over your existing system, that might give you a good indication how much production you might expect?

My existing 3kW system gave me 12.5kWh/day over the last 10 years (southwest, no shade), so your estimate of 10kWh might make sense but is on the safe/low side.

Wiping out peak consumption would require an additional 3.3kWh of solar per day which looking at production numbers from my panels might be possible, but your east orientation will hurt. But if your panels are mounted very flat it might not matter much after all.

Also, I assume you have NET1? If you upgrade your solar by 10% or more, PG&E will move you to NET2! On NET2 the feed in tariffs are about 2.5c-3c lower than the consumption tariffs. This will obviously also count against you.

Hope these tidbits help, but it is difficult to get hard numbers without going full out, downloading PG&E past consumption/production spreadsheets and inserting modeled/estimated number for your future production. I think it would be worth it, but I have been biased towards (more) solar for a while. Good luck with the whole process.

 

[Ampster]

............... This is why the sweet spot from a financial point of view is to offset less than 100% of your annual usage.

I have often used more kWhrs but had a negative dollar balance at true up. The effect of that is to lower the effect of the minimum charges on my cost of energy. Because of the minimum charges my cost will never be zero. That was on NEM 1.O and I haven't fully digested the impact of the NBCs on my logic now that this new installation is on NEM 2.0.

 

[cwied]

Also, I assume you have NET1? If you upgrade your solar by 10% or more, PG&E will move you to NET2! On NET2 the feed in tariffs are about 2.5c-3c lower than the consumption tariffs. This will obviously also count against you.

If I read the terms correctly, it's even worse than that. The non-bypassable charges in NEM 2.0 aren't netted against production - they are billed even if you have enough production to offset them. This means there's additional value to avoid drawing from the grid, albeit small at this point.

 

[mattack4000]

That's what I will end up doing. 3/4 of the panel will be facing east and the other 1/4 will be facing the southwest side where the sun is king after 3. I am being conservative and calculate 10kwh generated per day, it will probably get more.

My current 2kw system generates 10 or 11kwh from what I remember correctly.

I am currently NET1, so I will have to move to NET2. I don't know if the new panels will help me become net zero for peak and partial-peak, but I should be able to overgenerate enough during partial peak to offset my peak and some offpeak usage. My current bill is $150 or so a month, I am calculating my ROI with that bill being $50. At this very conservative measurement, I am guessing my ROI is 5 years.

I just added a second system and 2 powerwalls. I ended up putting some of the new panels west facing and preferred that over east facing due to fog in the mornings and better alignments with peak-periods if facing west. Are you west (and south) facing roof-parts taken or not possible?

My second system almost exactly doubles my prior system and so far it has worked out that way. If you take the ratio of your new system over your existing system, that might give you a good indication how much production you might expect?

My existing 3kW system gave me 12.5kWh/day over the last 10 years (southwest, no shade), so your estimate of 10kWh might make sense but is on the safe/low side.

Wiping out peak consumption would require an additional 3.3kWh of solar per day which looking at production numbers from my panels might be possible, but your east orientation will hurt. But if your panels are mounted very flat it might not matter much after all.

Also, I assume you have NET1? If you upgrade your solar by 10% or more, PG&E will move you to NET2! On NET2 the feed in tariffs are about 2.5c-3c lower than the consumption tariffs. This will obviously also count against you.

Hope these tidbits help, but it is difficult to get hard numbers without going full out, downloading PG&E past consumption/production spreadsheets and inserting modeled/estimated number for your future production. I think it would be worth it, but I have been biased towards (more) solar for a while. Good luck with the whole process.

 

[Late2theGame]

If I read the terms correctly, it's even worse than that. The non-bypassable charges in NEM 2.0 aren't netted against production - they are billed even if you have enough production to offset them. This means there's additional value to avoid drawing from the grid, albeit small at this point.

I think you are correct on this one!

BTW: Increasing solar panels by more than 10% will also trigger a true-up at PTO (permission to operate). This means one gets a bill for a partial year. This can be very negative in different ways: If you currently have only winter month in your current NET year, you will pay them without a chance to balance them out. If you have only summer month, you might loose any accrued balance. I have not received my first bill yet, but this is my understanding from reading the rules.

 

[Late2theGame]

That's what I will end up doing. 3/4 of the panel will be facing east and the other 1/4 will be facing the southwest side where the sun is king after 3. I am being conservative and calculate 10kwh generated per day, it will probably get more.

My current 2kw system generates 10 or 11kwh from what I remember correctly.

I am currently NET1, so I will have to move to NET2. I don't know if the new panels will help me become net zero for peak and partial-peak, but I should be able to overgenerate enough during partial peak to offset my peak and some offpeak usage. My current bill is $150 or so a month, I am calculating my ROI with that bill being $50. At this very conservative measurement, I am guessing my ROI is 5 years.

If your roof is flat the difference in orientation might be minor. Mine is 3 in 12 = 14% and the difference between east and west is minor (~5%).
I use the CSI EPBB calculator to check these things CSI EPBB Calculator
Just use the recalculate button at the bottom of the result page. This way the calculator remembers your input values (back button in browser resets your input).