Why is quoting the user manual "an excuse"? Sure, you are entitled to say "I'm disappointed that the car cannot use TACC where other cars can", but you can't say "Other cars can do this so its a defect that this can cannot".
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Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car
- Thread starter RHINO SKIN SOL
- Start date
I’m with you on the issues of phantom breaking and getting it fixed. But teslas vision system is much different than the others that you have mentioned. I don’t fault Tesla for trying out new things. They absolutely should and I’m sure it will take time to fix. What I do fault them on is having their customers test it out for them instead of doing that testing in-house to the best of their ability. It’s the same issue that exists with their quality control with panel gaps. They say it’s good enough and yet people are paying 60k+ for their cars. That to me is not right. They are creating an unnecessary risk/disappointment that does not need to exist.
Panel gap crap is mostly none existing and every car maker has them to certain Degree. I owned 16 cars and have never looked for panel gaps when I was buying one, didn’t even know it is the thing until I read Tesla forum and all the rear hurt people.
Read the owners manual. It doesn't say that it is for use on restricted access highways. It specifies that it is not for use on curvy roads or city streets. According to the owners manual you should ALWAYS be ready to take over, limited access highway or not.
Functional cruise control in a $60,000+ car in 2021 (time of purchase) is not a "bonus".
The end.
Keith
I repeat. Read the manual.
It does NOT say that TACC or AP are for use on limited access highways only. It specifies that they are not for use on curvy roads or city streets. Most people don't actually read the manual. I urge you to read the relevant portion of the owners manual.
Keith
As of end of last year I still saw large panel gap. Don’t know when you have last looked. I saw cars they were selling with pretty wide gaps. You don’t have to look at other sellers because they have proven themselves. Tesla has not yet.
Not trying to put words in your mouth. A different poster was "quoting the manual" with words that are not in the manual... then you defended his statement and I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that you didn't know he was spreading misinformation. Did you or didn't you know that the manual does not say that TACC and AP are for use on controlled access highways only?
Keith
When you are on Autopilot it means you are using auto steer.
From manual:
Warning
Autosteer is intended for use on controlled-access highways with a fully attentive driver. When using Autosteer, hold the steering wheel and be mindful of road conditions and surrounding traffic. Do not use Autosteer in construction zones, or in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present. Never depend on Autosteer to determine an appropriate driving path. Always be prepared to take immediate action. Failure to follow these instructions could cause damage, serious injury or death.
Warning
Due to limitations inherent in the onboard GPS (Global Positioning System), you may experience situations in which Traffic-Aware Cruise Control slows down the vehicle, especially near exits or off-ramps where a curve is detected and/or you are actively navigating to a destination and not following the route.
Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways.
Many factors can impact the performance of Autopilot components, causing them to be unable to function as intended. These include (but are not limited to):
The list above does not represent an exhaustive list of situations that may interfere with proper operation of Autopilot components. Never depend on these components to keep you safe. It is the driver's responsibility to stay alert, drive safely, and be in control of the vehicle at all times.
Looks like it is all covered in manual.
From manual:
Warning
Autosteer is intended for use on controlled-access highways with a fully attentive driver. When using Autosteer, hold the steering wheel and be mindful of road conditions and surrounding traffic. Do not use Autosteer in construction zones, or in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present. Never depend on Autosteer to determine an appropriate driving path. Always be prepared to take immediate action. Failure to follow these instructions could cause damage, serious injury or death.
Warning
Due to limitations inherent in the onboard GPS (Global Positioning System), you may experience situations in which Traffic-Aware Cruise Control slows down the vehicle, especially near exits or off-ramps where a curve is detected and/or you are actively navigating to a destination and not following the route.
Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways.
Many factors can impact the performance of Autopilot components, causing them to be unable to function as intended. These include (but are not limited to):
- Poor visibility (due to heavy rain, snow, fog, etc.).
- Bright light (due to oncoming headlights, direct sunlight, etc.).
- Damage or obstructions caused by mud, ice, snow, etc.
- Interference or obstruction by object(s) mounted onto the vehicle (such as a bike rack).
- Obstruction caused by applying excessive paint or adhesive products (such as wraps, stickers, rubber coating, etc.) onto the vehicle.
- Narrow or winding roads.
- A damaged or misaligned body panel.
- Use of gray or aftermarket glass.
- Interference from other equipment that generates ultrasonic waves.
- Extremely hot or cold temperatures.
The list above does not represent an exhaustive list of situations that may interfere with proper operation of Autopilot components. Never depend on these components to keep you safe. It is the driver's responsibility to stay alert, drive safely, and be in control of the vehicle at all times.
Looks like it is all covered in manual.
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That particular section of the manual has changed a couple of times (something I find interesting), at one point it did limit TACC/AP much more than it does now, hence the confusion in some threads. The wording is also subject to interpretation, and (I suspect) many of the disagreements here may be caused by different interpretations.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I agree - it is interesting that Tesla has changed the wording in the manual. It kind of begs the question - you buy a car with one set of capabilities As defined in the manual and then Tesla changes the capabilities or the manual, to what extent is Tesla obligated to inform users of changes and to what extent are users obligated to read about them? The release notes are generally quite abbreviated and vague, and expecting people to comb through a 500 page manual every few months is not reasonable, either. It’s a unique question with Teslas since no other car maker has the flexibility they do to add or change features.
Regardless it doesn’t really matter. TACC still has issues, even in the most restricted use settings and every other car maker has managed to make adaptive cruise that works on most roads without an issue.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
When I picked up my MY I was so worried about panel gaps that I downloaded that ridiculous Tesla delivery checklist app. After about 5 minutes of my wife and I both poring over the car, we both started laughing at how this was a complete waste of time. I've been to a few local Tesla meetups and I've never seen a car with obvious panel gaps nor have I talked to anyone personally who complained about them.
I agree that a small percentage of cars have a slightly gapped panel or two but this is most likely due to the accepted tolerances in the robotic assembly line. Tesla is no exception, but it's no worse than other cars that I've owned.
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sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Here's the rub - phantom braking still occurs even when none of the listed limitations are present. Unless you say "well, they must fall under the final disclaimer that 'the list is not exhaustive.'" But if you say that then you're basically saying "there are no expectations so TACC can never fail to meet them." That's a pretty sorry defense.
SFNM Jack
Fueled by the Sun…
I’m a realist, not a fan boy…. If any of you are old enough to remember the ford pinto explosions, the company did jack to fix this until the feds got involved. Same with the corvair…. For those with even a longer time on the planet under their belt we’ll remember that It took “Naders Raiders” to get the feds and GM to move on this death trap. There is nothing wrong with reporting a safety issue to the appropriate government agency.
For those that believe government inquires won’t move the needle, you’re wrong. Almost 40 years in the computer industry and being part of several interventions by the FCC and Consumer safety folks I can tell you that these kinds of things bring ”real focus” to a design teams priorities.
For some, this is a dangerous and defective ”feature”. For others like me it is an afterthought since my car doesn’t exhibit this problem with any frequency or severity…
Anyhow, looks like the NHTSA is on it…
electrek.co
For those that believe government inquires won’t move the needle, you’re wrong. Almost 40 years in the computer industry and being part of several interventions by the FCC and Consumer safety folks I can tell you that these kinds of things bring ”real focus” to a design teams priorities.
For some, this is a dangerous and defective ”feature”. For others like me it is an afterthought since my car doesn’t exhibit this problem with any frequency or severity…
Anyhow, looks like the NHTSA is on it…
Tesla is now under NHTSA investigation for Autopilot's phantom braking problem
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) confirmed that it opened an investigation into Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem under Autopilot....
electrek.co
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Report issues to the NHTSA, they rely heavily on user feedback and have been receiving plenty about this issue specifically in 2021+ Model 3s and Model Ys
Corporations are disinclined to put energy into things that don't generate new revenue and sometimes need a fire lit under them
Corporations are disinclined to put energy into things that don't generate new revenue and sometimes need a fire lit under them
The newest version does state that auto steer (we are discussing TACC here... not sure why you are bringing up auto steer) is designed for use on limited access highways... my printed copy from just a month ago doesn't have this blurb, but yes it is in the newest on-line version... it then goes on to tell you all the limitations on auto steer when you use it on roads other than limited access highways. This is similar to the lawyers putting to always obey the speed limit in the owners manual of a Corvette before going on to tell you that the maximum speed is limited to 186 mph due to the OEM tires.
It then goes on to say that TACC (what we are discussing in this thread) is primarily for use on dry strait roads such as highways. In the new restrictions on auto steer they are very specific about the phrase "controlled access highways", for TACC it only says dry strait roads such as highways. For my daily drive I am on state highways for 90% of the drive, and they are strait as an arrow. I have ONE gentle curve before I get to town and resume manual speed control.
If you want to keep defending this inexcusable debacle of an "advanced" system, you need to speak up to Tesla and have them change the manual some more to limit TACC to controlled access highways only.
Keith
PS: Off topic. I have zero problems with auto steer if I chose to use it on my commute... not sure why you brought up the system that actually WORKS in your arguments to defend TACC.
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