I'm really trying to understand. Are you saying you are driving manually (no TACC) with your foot on the accelerator and the car overrides the accelerator and brakes suddenly?
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Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car
- Thread starter RHINO SKIN SOL
- Start date
You didn't ask me, but yes. That's exactly what AEB does. It's supposed to do that, but only if a collision is imminent. Occasionally it gets that last part wrong and slams on the brakes for no good reason.
AEB's rate of false positives for me is low enough that I usually leave it on, because my best guess is it's more likely to help than hurt in my day-to-day casual driving. I already crashed a car once in my life from a moment of distraction that quite likely would have been prevented by a modern AEB system. (The crash would have been prevented. A step further would be an active driver monitoring system catching me getting distracted.)
If I'm doing any kind of difficult, focused driving where slamming on the brakes incorrectly is likely to cause a slide or spin, I will turn my VO Model 3's AEB off. I don't trust it enough for such driving, and I will be highly focused anyways.
j_grange
Member
I don’t get it, I had drove my brothers car (with radar ) for awhile and never had any serious issues with autopilot. I have driven a few older model X without issue. But recently took ownership of a new model 3 (without radar of course) and reading all these posts while waiting thinking I was not going to be able to use autopilot on my new car. I don’t get it because I have had ZERO issues with exception of navigate on autopilot turns sometimes , but no issues with slamming on breaking: not on freeways and not in town and not on split lane country roads. So what am I missing here ?
Nothing .. you are in the majority, and its been shown again and again that PB incidence has almost nothing to do with radar or lack of radar. It's not clear what makes one car worse than another (or even if that is the case), or if its road related, or driver related, or just people having different ideas about what PB actually is.
j_grange
Member
Well good to know I'm not going crazy
Also good that my wife is getting comfortable with me using the Autopilot Yes, others have reported that phantom BRAKING is becoming less of an issue of late. Each update seems to have improvements to this, AFAIK.
I test drove the model y for 1 hour and had 3 minor phantom breaking event. For the most part you do not notice them. I was going through an area of shaded trees and sun at about 40mph. The car slowed down 3 times to around 30 with no one around. I think a vast majority of people only experience this and not the slamming on the breaks event. The issue still exists.
I agree. We read here about the times AP doesn't work right, but not many people post just to say it's going great.
I experience phantom braking at least some point in pretty much every drive on which I use AP, but I am not complaining. Quite the contrary! I am amazed that this car can turn, brake, and accelerate on it's own so much of the time. I would never have believed this possible a few years ago.
I don't seriously expect the FSD concept to be reality anytime in the next 10 years or so, but for now I am thoroughly enjoying AP, even with its PB. We're teaching a machine to drive after all.
OxBrew
Active Member
Why not complain? I get about 15 PB in the 300 ish mile drive from Spokane to Seattle. Most (over half) are clear straight divided highway, no obvious reason.
The rest are passing trucks, hills, rock outcroppings, shadows, concrete-asphalt.
Most are only 5-10mph, but quite abrupt, wife curses wildly, makes me turn off AP.
One was so bad, slowed from 76 to 42, no traffic behind so I let it go, before I hit the go pedal to get back to speed, let off again, slowed immediately, cancelled AP.
This is somehow OK?
The rest are passing trucks, hills, rock outcroppings, shadows, concrete-asphalt.
Most are only 5-10mph, but quite abrupt, wife curses wildly, makes me turn off AP.
One was so bad, slowed from 76 to 42, no traffic behind so I let it go, before I hit the go pedal to get back to speed, let off again, slowed immediately, cancelled AP.
This is somehow OK?
To the OP. Stop threatening to "return the car". Go ahead. Go trade it. Returning it really isn't an option. So ahead and stop making empty threats, and just do it. Take a bath on a trade in for a different car. Then, you can be on a different forum, complaining about the ID4, or the Hyundai's. All cars, on every forum, have "massive" issues that owners threaten to return the car over. They get worked on. They get fixed. It takes time. When your on the leading edge of technology, your going to have hiccups. It's part of the process.
So either live with those hiccups, or choose a different path. But threatening to "return" your car in a forum is just, well, pointless. If your gonna trade it...then just go f**king trade it.
Or
Try working WITH Tesla to help them. Note the occurances. Take it in, let them download it. Help yourself, and maybe help others in the same situation. Nothing will get fixed on a forum or chat site.
So either live with those hiccups, or choose a different path. But threatening to "return" your car in a forum is just, well, pointless. If your gonna trade it...then just go f**king trade it.
Or
Try working WITH Tesla to help them. Note the occurances. Take it in, let them download it. Help yourself, and maybe help others in the same situation. Nothing will get fixed on a forum or chat site.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
I agree, but no one would take a bath on any Tesla product right now. You would probably turn a profit.
However - your other point is something we have done, or at least I have personally. Ive reported my incidents to Tesla until I was blue in the face and they literally just ignore me. I have reported it in email form, on the phone and from the car directly - every occurrence in the last 6 months or so Ive been tracking the issue. I know Tesla's service/customer service model at this point, and I am SURE they are working on this. I am also sure it's more prevalent with the camera-only system and I have no doubt Mr Musk himself is aware of and working on the issue with the team.
This said, I think the point about this not getting solved on a forum is a really good one. Most people that own a new model Y are probably not checking these forums. I just happen to be a car enthusiast and have frequented various forums for many years so I like the discussion. I am guessing most people with this issue are going to engage service, get the "it happens and theres no solution" two step until it's fixed, then either get way frustrated and dump the cars or not. It's a matter of how many of these people get mad enough to do something about it.
Hopefully they figure it out soon.
J
SFNM Jack
Fueled by the Sun…
The best course of action is to report this incidents to the NHTSA. They will force a recall especially if people are reporting accidents caused by PB. Tesla is like the Russians. Cheat as much as you can until you get caught then blame someone else for it. Couldn’t resist the Olympics tie, sorry…
I feel for all of you with this problem. I experience it but so infrequently and it is so minor in my car that it’s a non-issue. The latest update even fixed this one spot on a frequently traveled road where I could sense some confusion by the car with very slight alternating acceleration and braking over about 1/2 mile section. Like someone lightly feathering the go pedal. Don’t get me wrong, I know this exists and in some cases very severely. I was following a M3 the other day ,75 mph on autopilot at 7 car links on I25 and as we approached an exit with a funny angle of departure it just slammed on the breaks. I mean slammed on the breaks, like 30-40 mph in zero seconds flat. I changed lanes and as I passed the guy he looked at me with a combination of fright, horror, apology and thankfulness that I didn’t cream him on his face. It was clear what had happened. It was a very near miss for all. My car didn’t so much as blink but of course I had taken control as soon as I saw the brake lights in the M3 come. I have since traveled that spot with no reaction from my car. It is a very interesting problem with many variables and having lead a software development team I can tell you they are chasing ghosts as much as chasing problems where data points to a solution. The car to car difference thing is really intriguing. Paint color? WFK.
Report your issues to the NHTSA. Just like boom box (which I thought was a BS recall) this is how the needle is moved. Once forced Tesla will have to act with urgency. Until then be safe and what your review…
j_grange
Member
And this is why we can’t have nice things
To clarify: implying that Tesla and Elon do not want to solve this ASAP is simply ridiculous. Implying that getting some government agency involved is somehow going to make the engineers work faster is also ridiculous.
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i think the issue isn't that they don't want to solve it asap. i think the problem is that tesla had radar capability where this issue was less. why not augment radar + vision and not switch to vision only with a system that you know isn't ready? Why risk your customer's lives by going to vision only when majority of your cars already have radar.And this is why we can’t have nice things
To clarify: implying that Tesla and Elon do not want to solve this ASAP is simply ridiculous. Implying that getting some government agency involved is somehow going to make the engineers work faster is also ridiculous.
j_grange
Member
Having driven both with and without radar cars , I honestly don’t notice any difference. The issues that are present (mostly dealing entering / exiting freeway / navigate on autopilot and not autopilot on its own) are same on both builds of the car. Yes I’m only one dude so take that with a grain of salt, but implying that Tesla needs to recall my car when I find it is working exactly as expected and without issue doesn’t make sense to me.
Isn't most car recalls like this? Majority of people have no idea that there is even an issue and they never experience the issue. But some people do and perhaps in certain situations you might. Its out of a precaution that they do the recall not because 100% of their people are experiencing it. Its basically saying that there is a problem and we are correcting it. With Tesla, majority of these are over the air so its not like we are having to take it in. Doesn't hurt to let the public know there is an issue.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
I know that this is an unfair comparison but on my radar-equipped MY I used to get occasional and consistent phantom braking before bridges, underpasses and on curves. Once on FSD beta, these events became less frequent. As the beta evolved and regen replaced the brakes for slowing the car in a more gradual manner, the braking events were limited to curves with opposing vehicles. These events are barely noticeable with the most recent beta. I believe that if the car also coasted instead of just using regen, the events would be more human-like in nature.
These observations help no one who isn't in the FSD beta group, but eventually this behavior should make it to all cars.
These observations help no one who isn't in the FSD beta group, but eventually this behavior should make it to all cars.
j_grange
Member
If by recall you mean fixing whatever edge case then sure great (again I don’t think government agency and hypebol news articles are going to speed this up) , if you are hoping they “disable” something that I use every day with great enjoyment and success then I hope you fail
SalisburySam
Active Member
Maybe, probably, but no one knows. Tesla has released little to indicate this is on their, ahem, radar. It’s likely safe to assume so, but I’ve seen no evidence. One nice bit of proof of course would be elimination of the problem. That hasn’t happened for those of us who experience it.
Correct, but regulatory edict can change agendas and priorities. Here Tesla steps over itself a bit by issuing new games, new UI’s, and so on with no outward transparency into its efforts to ameliorate one problem the cars have had since inception for at least some of us. My experiences in my radar-equipped M3 are vastly different from yours; I wish I had your vehicle(s) frankly. But I don’t, and service has reported all is peachy. Sorry, it is not.
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