Damn, that’s crappier than I realized. For all his harping about how vision only should be feasible since that’s what humans do, Elon sure doesn’t bother putting in decent sensor and lenses. Humans can detect objects literally kilometers away in the right conditions, and while driving it’s fairly routine to be looking ahead 500m or more. All while maintaining a roughly 180° field of view (albeit lower resolution at the periphery unless you change what you’re looking at)
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Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car
- Thread starter RHINO SKIN SOL
- Start date
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Yes and no. They’re not as widely separated as the Subaru system (on either side of the mirror) but if you compare them to human eyes they’re at least as far if not slightly further apart than your eyes are so it should (or at least could) work. I don’t now what the configuration of other binocular systems is to compare with them.
I'm not talking about the stereoscopic capabilities. I'm talking about the distance and viewing angle. 250m distance limit is pathetic. And the wide angle having a max 150º FOV isn't great either. These are not sensors in any way comparable to the human eye.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Yes, but 250m is plenty of time/distance for the car to react. Seriously, how often are you looking more than 50-100 yards ahead (Assuming the road’s not empty)
The 150º FOV is also augmented by other cameras, so you can’t take that in isolation.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
Other manufacturers don't seem to have a problem, and if they did they wouldn't release the system to the public, they would stick with regular cruise control while they worked out the bugs in their adaptive cruise system.
The code for dumb cruise control exists and is in use on the older Mode 3's that didn't come with free Auto Pilot. A simple "TACC or regular cruise control" slider button in the driving options screen and the problem is solved.
Keith
The problem isn't the distance between the cameras, it is the capability of the cameras. You can't do binocular vision with cameras of different capabilities like the Tesla has. It would be like you walking around with a magnifying glass in front of one eye and a telescope in front of the other (yes, that is an exaggeration to illustrate the problem).
Keith
But they do have same problems and even have same warning language in the manual about system limitations. Because some people never experienced that problem doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Just like with Teslas PB events. Some people have it and some don’t.
I have a 2018 VW Atlas and the adaptive Cruise Control works incredibly well. I’ve never had a phantom braking event in the four years I’ve had the vehicle. I am in the final weeks of waiting for my MYP and I’m pretty bummed that AutoPilot is not as good as what I have now. Hopefully Tesla will sort this out soon.
I had Atlas too and System is last century vs what Tesla has. Also you won’t miss elephant driving dynamics vs Tesla.
System maybe last century but it worked without causing phantom breaking. maybe Tesla should use last century systems that works while they work on fixing the issues with new system
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Yes and no - as numerous people have stated (most recently @curleymapper ) even if those systems have occasional problems, they are rare enough that they don't cause routine issues.
Last century...and yet it works better. Hmmm. How is this century 'better' if things work worse? I think @soumak has some good advice for Elon.
System maybe last century but it worked without causing phantom breaking. maybe Tesla should use last century systems that works while they work on fixing the issues with new system
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
If you're in heavy traffic, you're generally only looking 50-100 m down the road. If you're in lighter traffic then yes, you look further down. Regardless, 250m (roughly 2 ½ football fields) is plenty far enough. If it's not then you're driving too fast.
With all the complex image processing that the software is doing, they can probably transform the field of views and match up objects as needed for binocular vision ... if needed.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I might be missing something, but it should be possible with the right processing.
And many manufacturers (not all) give the car owner the option of using dumb cruise if they don't want to put up with the potential problems of advanced traffic aware systems. Also, many (not all) default to dumb cruise if the sensors required for advanced cruise are not functioning properly or are blocked by bug guts / bird droppings etc. I just want Tesla to step up and be leader in the pack rather than being in last place on this issue.
Keith
Yup. How much processing is too much though?
HW 3.0- (minus designates removal of radar) is not up to the task. They already have new processors in the pipeline but we will not benefit from them in our cars, nor will we get better cameras so this discussion is all theoretical for next generation systems that may benefit future Tesla cars. I think that twin identical cameras at a large distance from each other looking at the same view can judge distance via parallax differential with less processing power than different types of cameras close together looking at the same view.
I could very well be wrong and welcome correction from anyone with real world experience in image processing / object location / distance measurement.
Keith
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
My goal post is firm in the ground and set in concreate. I want cruise control that works in my $60,000+ car. This is a very simple goal to achieve, every other car manufacturer with a dumb cruise control system starting in the 1940's achieved this goal.
I have faith that Tesla could put dumb cruise as an option in our cars while they work out the bugs in TACC... you disagree with this for some reason.
#1 You don't think Tesla is incapable of doing this, you agree that they have the ability to use dumb cruise as demonstrated in the early Model 3's that do not have Auto Pilot. If I am wrong please state your logical reason for thinking Tesla is incapable of doing dumb cruise control.
#2 You can't give a reason for Tesla to not enable dumb cruise control. If I am wrong please state your logical reason for Tesla to not enable dumb cruise.
If you can't refute #1 and #2 above then why are you talking?
Keith
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