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Plan: Off grid solar with a Model S battery pack at the heart

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If you do ever decide to hook up your own mini split and vacuum down the line set yourself, which is very easy. Make sure when you pull a vacuum on the lines you close the valve before you unplug the pump. If you turn off the vacuum pump before you close the valve the vacuum in the line set will suck the oil right out of the vacuum pump and straight into the line set.

I do think it is pretty likely that if you recovered all the refrigerant out of your units, checked factory charge levels, accounted for volume of line set length and proper install, and then recharged your units to the proper levels you would see a large improvement. The attention to detail and need to do calculations in a/c installs is beyond most installers unfortunately.
 
OK, so, finally done with a chunk of my summer travel. Have plenty more coming, but at least I'm here for a bit and can get some work done!

Finally replaced the failed module from the inverter that blew up while I was in Hawaii. Was about an hour job all together with reconfiguring and testing. Have all eight inverters up and running again yay!

It's been super hot here lately (mid to upper 90s F), and super hot even on days with very little solar production. I also had company earlier last month for about a week (full house) and HVAC, TVs, lights, water heating, etc all worked a little overtime. So, slightly higher than normal usage overall. For the past 30 days, though, I'm at about 60% solar powered and 40% from the grid.

Also got a note in the mail from Duke Energy about upcoming maintenance.......... which I don't need to care about :p Although I'm betting my upstream cable node goes down :(

duke-maintenance.jpg
 
Although I'm betting my upstream cable node goes down :(
During our last power outage the first truck to show up on our street was from Comcast. It turns out there is an amplifier or some other type of node on their network that draws power from the same transformer my house is on. The guy pulled out a tiny Honda generator and ran an extension cord up the pole to the box. After about 15 minutes he was gone and the little generator was whirring away. About an hour after the power came back, he returned to reconnect their box to the regular electrical connection and take back the generator. So, you never know...
 
WK057, I joined TMC because of this and your pack teardown threads. I'm really impressed with the engineering you put into your system, and the way you've answered questions throughout. I'm really looking forward to see how your system performs once the yard panels are installed. Thanks for some educational and entertaining reading!

-Josh
 
Sorry for the lack of updates. :(

So, bunch going on.

Have the 29 SEER Fujitsu 1 ton mini split being installed in the electrical room in about two weeks by an authorized installer. Install costs were low enough vs just buying it and doing it myself that I'm just going to let them do it all. They're also going to wall mount the unit outside on a north facing wall about 6' from the ground. Apparently there is a wall bracket kit for it.

That's one thing off of the list.

Next is final planning for the ground mount array. I have 66 panels that need to be setup out there, 28.7kW worth. That's almost 1600 square feet of panels.

Finding a good way to do this without looking ridiculous has been a challenge. I've been consulting a bit with the folks I had helping with the roof install and we came up with what appears to be the final game plan, pending some final clarifications.

Long story short, the install will be in four different array sections. There will be a front row of arrays and a back row. 3 rows of 3 columns (9 panels) and 3 rows of 4 columns (12 panels) in the front, side by side with minimal space in between. Behind those to the north will be an array of 5 rows of 5 columns (25 panels) and an array of 5 rows of 4 columns (20 panels). The tilt we settled on was 20 degrees for multiple reasons. Aesthetics (highest point on the largest section is only 7' from the ground at 20 degrees); mounting simplicity (higher tilt requires more wind load in the engineering calcs and thus heavier duty mounting); spacing between the two rows of arrays (the higher the tilt the more space is needed to prevent self-shadowing).

The arrays will require about 600' of 2" schedule 40 galvanized steel pipe, about 60,000 lbs of concrete for the pylons, and 32 holes 24" wide by 4' deep for posts.

Two issues being worked before this is all final.

First, the idea is to delete the northern side to the fence around my pool area and related landscaping (some bushes), start the array there, then replace the fence by extending it around the array (along with some new bushes). Code says that the array would need to be 10+ feet from the pool, and this would put it at 12 feet. However the county planning office isn't liking this particular setup for some reason due to the proximity to the pool, so, little bit of unfounded resistance there. Waiting on a final call on that which should come next week. Should be simple, really. My pool equipment runs on 240VAC and is in contact with the water. My PV array operates at a max of about 160 VDC and is 12+ feet away from the water. I personally don't see the issue and can't find any code that would go against this either... especially considering the array will be properly grounded, have GFCI and AFCI protection, etc.

Second, the rear of the array may or may not encroach upon part of the drain field for my home's septic system. With the lack of substantial rainfall and super hot days we've been having my grass is suffering... except where the drain field is. Originally everyone was unaware that it extended this far into the yard. Waiting on a final say on how to proceed with that. We believe the pylons can be placed without needing to go through any of the actual drain field lines in the ground, but I'm consulting with a couple of "experts" on this matter before risking anything. As far as I'm told so far, the array can cover parts of the drain field if it doesn't block the ground directly (like covering it with an above ground pool would), but not sure about the rear row of ~8 pylons being in the drain field. If absolutely needed I may have to have the septic system modified before proceeding with the ground array since there really is no better place to put the array than currently planned.

Assuming all goes well with the above I expect to have permits in hand late next week with construction beginning maybe the second week of August.

Edit: Almost forgot. The grid power maintenance I posted about above happened as planned and lasted until about 4AM. Seems my local cable node must have sufficient backup power because I was up and running the whole time. Only house within several miles with power. A/C running, lights on, etc. hehe. Got a couple of comments from neighbors over the next few days about it. Quite a few of them had no idea I even had any solar or anything installed (back of the house).
 
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Second, the rear of the array may or may not encroach upon part of the drain field for my home's septic system. With the lack of substantial rainfall and super hot days we've been having my grass is suffering... except where the drain field is. Originally everyone was unaware that it extended this far into the yard. Waiting on a final say on how to proceed with that. We believe the pylons can be placed without needing to go through any of the actual drain field lines in the ground, but I'm consulting with a couple of "experts" on this matter before risking anything. As far as I'm told so far, the array can cover parts of the drain field if it doesn't block the ground directly (like covering it with an above ground pool would), but not sure about the rear row of ~8 pylons being in the drain field. If absolutely needed I may have to have the septic system modified before proceeding with the ground array since there really is no better place to put the array than currently planned.

FYI a septic guy can come out with a little rod and tell you exactly where and how far your drain lines go out in about 5 minutes. Also relocating the drain field would cost you about 12-16k so I'm assuming you want to avoid those costs....better to leave your septic alone.

Also anything heavy placed on top of the field will compact the soil and cause your septic drain field to prematurely fail...(and cause septic back up into the house...not a pretty sight and not fun to clean up).
 
FYI a septic guy can come out with a little rod and tell you exactly where and how far your drain lines go out in about 5 minutes. Also relocating the drain field would cost you about 12-16k so I'm assuming you want to avoid those costs....better to leave your septic alone.

Also anything heavy placed on top of the field will compact the soil and cause your septic drain field to prematurely fail...(and cause septic back up into the house...not a pretty sight and not fun to clean up).

Yeah, that's definitely something I want to avoid.

Basically, putting the array up in the desired location will involve at least 8 posts of the rear row being basically inside the drain field. Preferably would like to just have it in spots where it doesn't damage the system, which means figuring out exactly where the lines are, as you described.

I'm not against relocating the drain field if absolutely needed. Rough estimates I've been given are quite a bit lower than you've suggested, however.

An additional option that has been suggested would be to have the rear rows re-engineered so that they can be supported without disturbing the ground by the drain field, presumably by beefing up the capacity of the front pylons and supporting the rear in some other fashion from the front.

It seems like there are going to be some additional unforeseen expenses required to complete the solar project no matter what I do. But, I'm too far in on it to not finish the project at this point even if it does go significantly over budget. :(
 
This is exactly the kind of project I never expect to actually happen. So frequently, people have this image of what it's like to live off grid. Generally it involves things like no lights and running water. Surely not charging electric cars and running A/C. You're going about things in a rather silly overkill method that I'm thinking is the right way. I might be a bit more mentally ill than you, since I think I would still take it a bit farther. All the technical details are welcome, I'm taking notes for my next house. Might as well go Passivhaus certified, and off grid from the start. I was thinking all ground mount would be the right way. So your experiences here can be helpful.

I'd be interested to hear what you got quoted for the mini split install, if you don't mind tossing over a PM. That unit should do the business for you. Wall mounts are the right way, especially to brick. 6' off the ground sounds a bit excessive, but I was thinking ~4-1/2' off the rear wall was enough for mine, and it ended up getting buried last winter. The thing still heated though, just not great. The one thing that sucks for most people, is the good ones run on 240V. A few days ago the power went out, which is quite uncommon, and I was backfeeding each phase with independent big UPS's like usual, although this time my mini split actually ran. I couldn't find my scope to measure the phase angle before I had to leave, but somehow they appeared to maintain sync over the 15 minutes it was on. This is encouraging, although I'd still prefer a proper split phase online sine wave UPS in the 10kVA+ range. And those things cost some coin thats a bit hard to justify for the once every 6 months the power goes out briefly.

Do you have any high power restive loads in your house? Did you ever slam on, say a 10kW load to the inverters? I'm still fond of tankless resistive point of source water heating, at least for my climate. I just put a 12kW Stiebel DHC-E under the kitchen sink to locally boost my ~108ºF hot water to 135+ for the dishwasher. The whole home unit still needs to be closer to shower temps to maximize energy return from the DWER. Figured I would put the kitchen sink on it too, since its kinda a long run. It's about 3 seconds to hot now, which is great and all, but it takes about 22kW when I open the tap, and thats with the warm summer water. What would happen to your inverters if you had a 30kW load that just hammered on? What about if none of the inverters went to sleep? The grid is happy to soak that up. I can't tell one bit when my washing machine fills, which uses ~30kW in nasty pulses. In the future I would probably wire motor loads and high power stuff on a separate panel and inverters, so a little sag is probably OK. But does a 30kW pulse make those inverters explode?
 
This is exactly the kind of project I never expect to actually happen. So frequently, people have this image of what it's like to live off grid. Generally it involves things like no lights and running water. Surely not charging electric cars and running A/C. You're going about things in a rather silly overkill method that I'm thinking is the right way. I might be a bit more mentally ill than you, since I think I would still take it a bit farther. All the technical details are welcome, I'm taking notes for my next house. Might as well go Passivhaus certified, and off grid from the start. I was thinking all ground mount would be the right way. So your experiences here can be helpful.

I'd be interested to hear what you got quoted for the mini split install, if you don't mind tossing over a PM. That unit should do the business for you. Wall mounts are the right way, especially to brick. 6' off the ground sounds a bit excessive, but I was thinking ~4-1/2' off the rear wall was enough for mine, and it ended up getting buried last winter. The thing still heated though, just not great. The one thing that sucks for most people, is the good ones run on 240V. A few days ago the power went out, which is quite uncommon, and I was backfeeding each phase with independent big UPS's like usual, although this time my mini split actually ran. I couldn't find my scope to measure the phase angle before I had to leave, but somehow they appeared to maintain sync over the 15 minutes it was on. This is encouraging, although I'd still prefer a proper split phase online sine wave UPS in the 10kVA+ range. And those things cost some coin thats a bit hard to justify for the once every 6 months the power goes out briefly.

Do you have any high power restive loads in your house? Did you ever slam on, say a 10kW load to the inverters? I'm still fond of tankless resistive point of source water heating, at least for my climate. I just put a 12kW Stiebel DHC-E under the kitchen sink to locally boost my ~108ºF hot water to 135+ for the dishwasher. The whole home unit still needs to be closer to shower temps to maximize energy return from the DWER. Figured I would put the kitchen sink on it too, since its kinda a long run. It's about 3 seconds to hot now, which is great and all, but it takes about 22kW when I open the tap, and thats with the warm summer water. What would happen to your inverters if you had a 30kW load that just hammered on? What about if none of the inverters went to sleep? The grid is happy to soak that up. I can't tell one bit when my washing machine fills, which uses ~30kW in nasty pulses. In the future I would probably wire motor loads and high power stuff on a separate panel and inverters, so a little sag is probably OK. But does a 30kW pulse make those inverters explode?

I actually have two HVAC units that have 12.5kW resistive AUX heating strips built in. I tested it out when I first got my setup going and the inverters handle it without issue. My current stress test is both Model S @ 80A (40kW), Pool pump (1.7kW), two A/C units + blowers (~5kW), my constant loads from 120V stuff (~1kW), and the loft/attic HVAC unit running resistive aux heat (~8kW) for a grand total of about 55kW, give or take. Inverters handle it just fine with just around a 1V drop on the DC side from the battery bank to the inverters.

If things ramp up very quickly (like the surge from all three heat pumps kicking on at once when I set Nest to "Home") and most of the inverters are sleeping a few of my LED lights flicker for probably one AC cycle while the other inverters kick on and pick up the slack. But, that happens with the grid, too, sometimes. The aux resistive heat actually seems like less of a "hammer" on the inverters than the surge of the heat pump A/C compressors. But really, no real noticeable difference in power quality.

I had actually considered an instant hot water system, but the heat pump hot water heater I got is 3x as efficient as the most efficient instant unit and sources the heat it needs from the waste heat of my equipment room. Win win.

Also, inverter idle load with no loads applied is 35W per inverter I believe. So, if I had all 8 never sleeping it would be 280W just idling... about 6.7 kWh/day for nothing. I've been keeping two inverters on constantly with the rest ramping in at 4kW intervals. This seems to work well with my A/C unit surges without needing to constantly wake more inverters. Two units alone can handle 32kW surges while the other inverters wake up and handle the load.
 
WK057, I joined TMC because of this and your pack teardown threads. I'm really impressed with the engineering you put into your system, and the way you've answered questions throughout. I'm really looking forward to see how your system performs once the yard panels are installed. Thanks for some educational and entertaining reading!

-Josh

I joined for the same reason, been reading for 3 days. Very interesting.

Then I looked at a couple of fellows work with Leafs-nice but they don't seem to have quite the same.."chops"

Then I saw this:
GM powers data center with used Chevy Volt batteries

I thought it pretty cool that GM, of all companies, was embracing the re-purposing of old batteries into energy storage for PV systems. Thought everyone that enjoyed this thread would enjoy reading up on that, it was news to me but it happened last month.
 
it may not be extending that far but you could have moisture creeping out of the drain-field, natural. What you don't want is to have failure in your drain-field(happens too many times). For that reason, I'd second the recommendation to have a septic guy come and take a look at the field and while there, take a look at your tank (unless you had this done during inspection). The only problem I'd see is if you accidentally bored a ground support hole into a drain line but even in that worst case scenario you could simply move the line and extend the field a bit. I dug many a line when I was young, sandy soils around Wilmington NC not that hard clay in Hickory.

Thanks again, your posts have been stimulating.

Posted a link earlier to GM's announcement that they were repurposing volt battery packs into power solutions once they had degraded a bit. Neat to know you were on the cutting edge. Tesla needs to hopalong with the powerpack and really push forward once the factory opens.
 
I'm working on an amateur top-down to-scale photographic simulation of my ground array now actually, using a drone photo I took today. Since the grass is dying from the weather it's pretty easy to see the drain field. Looks like about 35% of my array would be over top of it with the current plan with 6 out of 32 post holes being right on top of the areas where the drain lines would be.

public-GM-planA.jpg


The red highlight is the area I believe the drainfield is, which looks to run almost exactly north/south. (The array is ~25 degrees off of south for aesthetic purposes.) The vertical east/west portion that heads to the house is just a guestimate for how it must be tied together (doesn't really go to the house....). The tank itself is right next to that corner of the porch area under that vertical red line somewhere.

Yellow dots are to-scale post holes to be dug. Front row 18" diameter 4' deep, back row 24" diameter 4' deep. The rear row can potentially use, as a one off alternative, 18" holes if they're made 7' deep if it makes a difference somewhere.

Landscaping changes in my simulation are just for visual purposes, not necessarily going to put bushes over drain field lines. :p
 
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I'm working on an amateur top-down to-scale photographic simulation of my ground array now actually, using a drone photo I took today. Since the grass is dying from the weather it's pretty easy to see the drain field. Looks like about 35% of my array would be over top of it with the current plan with 6 out of 32 post holes being right on top of the areas where the drain lines would be.

View attachment 88281

The red highlight is the area I believe the drainfield is, which looks to run almost exactly north/south. (The array is ~25 degrees off of south for aesthetic purposes.) The vertical east/west portion that heads to the house is just a guestimate for how it must be tied together (doesn't really go to the house....). The tank itself is right next to that corner of the porch area under that vertical red line somewhere.

Yellow dots are to-scale post holes to be dug. Front row 18" diameter 4' deep, back row 24" diameter 4' deep. The rear row can potentially use, as a one off alternative, 18" holes if they're made 7' deep if it makes a difference somewhere.

Landscaping changes in my simulation are just for visual purposes, not necessarily going to put bushes over drain field lines. :p

If the red is it then not so good. I would go to the county pull the house plat, I bet they have a GIS department that could email it to you, it should show the location of the field. I was thinking the array was going to just touch the side or bottom of the drainfield. If you are correct you'd be cutting across the main distribution line, right across it. I don't think I'd recommend that, no holiday inn and no septic professional, and I think it would be far better to move the main distribution line and then extend the feeders a bit. You'd put a new main line from the house to the last distribution line, it would leave a triangle shaped piece behind. Is that clear? I could paint a picture on your image. However, to me it looks like the drainfield is at the bottom of the picture, grass looks greener and that you may be in the clear. So step one is getting location from county.

Things to consider: will the county make someone remove the old field? Not such a big project if you can leave the old lines in place and just put a new distribution line and extend the feeders. Septic field sizing is all quite regulated but not rockets science. Is access available to get a skid steer and mini excavator back there? Because if the do that they can just drill the post for the array while they have the equipment. The larger the machinery they can get back there the faster it will go. If they have 8' access then they can get a large mini excavator and they will have the new lines dug in no time. They'll use a skidseer to haul in new rock from a dump truck on the street. It is going to make a bit of mess, have them dump the gravel on a tarp (neighbors will appreciate the cleanup). They'll need to remove some soil, it might be considered "contaminated" and have to go to a special landfill (again regulations vary).

If you are right on the drain field it would seem far easier to me to spit the larger array in half and have 3 rows, avoiding the septic issue entirely but I don't know if that creates other issues (siting, neighbors, HOA, etc).
 
If the red is it then not so good. I would go to the county pull the house plat, I bet they have a GIS department that could email it to you, it should show the location of the field. I was thinking the array was going to just touch the side or bottom of the drainfield. If you are correct you'd be cutting across the main distribution line, right across it. I don't think I'd recommend that, no holiday inn and no septic professional, and I think it would be far better to move the main distribution line and then extend the feeders a bit. You'd put a new main line from the house to the last distribution line, it would leave a triangle shaped piece behind. Is that clear? I could paint a picture on your image. However, to me it looks like the drainfield is at the bottom of the picture, grass looks greener and that you may be in the clear. So step one is getting location from county.

Things to consider: will the county make someone remove the old field? Not such a big project if you can leave the old lines in place and just put a new distribution line and extend the feeders. Septic field sizing is all quite regulated but not rockets science. Is access available to get a skid steer and mini excavator back there? Because if the do that they can just drill the post for the array while they have the equipment. The larger the machinery they can get back there the faster it will go. If they have 8' access then they can get a large mini excavator and they will have the new lines dug in no time. They'll use a skidseer to haul in new rock from a dump truck on the street. It is going to make a bit of mess, have them dump the gravel on a tarp (neighbors will appreciate the cleanup). They'll need to remove some soil, it might be considered "contaminated" and have to go to a special landfill (again regulations vary).

If you are right on the drain field it would seem far easier to me to spit the larger array in half and have 3 rows, avoiding the septic issue entirely but I don't know if that creates other issues (siting, neighbors, HOA, etc).

Splitting the larger portion of the array isn't really going to work. If it sat say in a third row, behind the other section in the second row then it would have to be very far back (~15+') from it to prevent self shading from row 2. So, not really a great option.

I'm basing the location I marked for the drain field on this unaltered image:
yard.jpg
 
Splitting the larger portion of the array isn't really going to work. If it sat say in a third row, behind the other section in the second row then it would have to be very far back (~15+') from it to prevent self shading from row 2. So, not really a great option.
Perhaps switching to an anaerobic system would allow you to have a smaller drain field that wouldn't interfere with the array?
 
Splitting the larger portion of the array isn't really going to work. If it sat say in a third row, behind the other section in the second row then it would have to be very far back (~15+') from it to prevent self shading from row 2. So, not really a great option.

I'm basing the location I marked for the drain field on this unaltered image:
View attachment 88302

Huh, well that helps. Hmm. Well, that looks to me like the drainfield is not working quite right. You should not have that single green line of green grass. I can't see topography in that but I assume the house and pool are higher than the septic, your yard slopes away and back? The other leach lines look correct, the leach lines are 18" or so below the ground so the pipes keep fescue from going deep and the grass has natural dormant reaction to water stress. No worries. It is actually the bright green one that is odd, it means that too much water is coming out there and you don't want to see that. So, confirm with the county on the plat. Then get a septic tank expert. It might be that the one leach line is getting all the water, flooding, and causing problems (see how it is even greener at the bottom of the leach line?). Hey good news is that you're going to be making holes in the lawn anyway. Late August is a great time to seed a lawn in Hickory.