Plug in J1772 adapter first -- or connect adapter to charger first?

[davewill]

I wonder whether all of this is working right now on the Tesla? I remember a few years ago when I unplugged quickly I’d get some nice long arcs since the power pins were still energized, lol. The standard is supposed to provide the means to prevent this arcing when properly implemented.

What is supposed to happen is that when the button is pressed, the car stops drawing current within a small number of milliseconds. That is to prevent arcing both at the handle and at the relays in the EVSE. It is not necessary for the car to actually signal that power should be removed when the button is pressed and my LEAF did not do so, but Teslas and most other cars do.

I've heard of enough of these arcing complaints that I've wondered for a while whether Tesla is shutting down the power draw quickly enough

 

[ewoodrick]

Hi all,

I have a new Model 3 and my wife has a different non-Tesla EV which we purchased first. So we have a J1772 Level 2 home charger. I've been attaching the Tesla adapter to the charger and then putting that assembly into the Tesla charging port. (I've done that twice now with no issues.) I see now that in the owner's manual it says to put the adapter into the charging port first and then inserting the J1772 charger. I'll do it that way from now on, but does the order really matter?

Thanks.

Can you say where that is in the manual?

About the only thing that I can find is

• Tesla also offers adapters that allow you to plug into the most commonly used public charging stations in your region. At a public charge station, first attach the adapter to the station's charging connector and then plug in your vehicle.

and

To disconnect the charge cable when using an adapter at a public charge station:

1. Unlock Model 3.
2. While holding the public charging handle in one hand and the adapter in the other hand, press and hold the button on the public charging handle and pull both outwards, removing the handle and adapter at the same time.
   Note: Press and hold the button on the charging handle again to release the adapter from the public charging handle.
   If the charging station handle separates from the adapter, leaving the adapter in Model 3, use the touchscreen to unlock the charge port.
   
   

These suggest to me to put the adaptor on the cable first and not the car.

It IS IMPORTANT when removing the plug that you press the handle first and wait for charging to complete and the charge port to unlock.
On the J-1772, it is possible to press and pull the handle from the adaptor before charging has completed, leaving the contacts live with possible arcing.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I've heard of enough of these arcing complaints that I've wondered for a while whether Tesla is shutting the power draw quickly enough

Yeah it's been years, and I'm not going to try again, since sometimes the car didn't like it when it happened. Might be fixed now, who knows...

Certainly seems like it should be easy to do assuming the J-1772 physical latch holding it to the adapter isn't snapped off, which happens.

 

[davewill]

On the J-1772, it is possible to press and pull the handle from the adaptor before charging has completed, leaving the contacts live with possible arcing.

As noted above, it's not supposed to be.

 

[MAPekala]

Can you say where that is in the manual?

About the only thing that I can find is

• Tesla also offers adapters that allow you to plug into the most commonly used public charging stations in your region. At a public charge station, first attach the adapter to the station's charging connector and then plug in your vehicle.

and

To disconnect the charge cable when using an adapter at a public charge station:

1. Unlock Model 3.
2. While holding the public charging handle in one hand and the adapter in the other hand, press and hold the button on the public charging handle and pull both outwards, removing the handle and adapter at the same time.
   Note: Press and hold the button on the charging handle again to release the adapter from the public charging handle.
   If the charging station handle separates from the adapter, leaving the adapter in Model 3, use the touchscreen to unlock the charge port.
   

These suggest to me to put the adaptor on the cable first and not the car.

It IS IMPORTANT when removing the plug that you press the handle first and wait for charging to complete and the charge port to unlock.
On the J-1772, it is possible to press and pull the handle from the adaptor before charging has completed, leaving the contacts live with possible arcing.

Here's where that is in the manual:

 

[ewoodrick]

As noted above, it's not supposed to be.

I'm talking about the physical latch that's on the J-1772 adapter and the safety latch that's in the car.

You can't pull the Tesla plug out until the safety latch has disengaged.

You can easily push and pull the J-1772 latch at the same time. AFIK, the Tesla adapter doesn't have any mechanism, except for the push latch to keep the plug from being withdrawn.

 

[davewill]

I'm talking about the physical latch that's on the J-1772 adapter and the safety latch that's in the car.

You can't pull the Tesla plug out until the safety latch has disengaged.

You can easily push and pull the J-1772 latch at the same time. AFIK, the Tesla adapter doesn't have any mechanism, except for the push latch to keep the plug from being withdrawn.

Yes, but Tesla shouldn't be allowing the car to draw power after you press the J1772 button, and I really don't think they do, but some people have seen arcing so...

 

[ewoodrick]

Yes, but Tesla shouldn't be allowing the car to draw power after you press the J1772 button, and I really don't think they do, but some people have seen arcing so...

That's my point! It is "possible" to press and pull so fast that the communications haven't had time to complete, and the inverters haven't turned off.

The CHAdeMO and CCS adapters also show some of the issue. CHAdeMO plugs, I believe, are infamous for having broken release buttons. Instantly disrupting 400A isn't a good thing.

 

[tga]

I 100% know, that the car knows, that a plug is plugged in but is dead because it has happened to me. One of the chargers died at work, I normally just plug in and walk away. My app told me that a plug is plugged in but not providing power warning message to me.

I oversimplified - the car knows if a WC or UMC plug is inserted without power, or a J1772 adapter + J1772 plug without power, but it does not know if an adapter only is inserted, which was the point of my post.

However, it can't detect the adapter if the plug is not in it as the proximity signal that is used must be connected through the handle.

Exactly.

The CHAdeMO and CCS adapters also show some of the issue. CHAdeMO plugs, I believe, are infamous for having broken release buttons. Instantly disrupting 400A isn't a good thing.

And DC is worse, since AC arcs are self extinguishing (at the zero crossing)

 

[RayK]

Yes, but Tesla shouldn't be allowing the car to draw power after you press the J1772 button, and I really don't think they do, but some people have seen arcing so...

Count me as one of those who has seen / heard arcing when pressing the J1772 handle's latch and pulling it out of the adapter (which remained in the car's port). Almost sh!t my pants when this happened. That quickly taught me to stop charging via the app before even touching the handle whenever using the J1772 adapter. This was at work where we had free charging from a 30A ChargePoint CT4000 over 5 years ago.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Here's where that is in the manual:

Interesting it says that when the CCS adapter manual says the opposite:
"Align the CCS Combo 1 Adapter to the end of the charging station’s cable and push together, ensuring it is firmly attached."
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_1_Adapter_en-NA.pdf

 

[stopcrazypp]

Count me as one of those who has seen / heard arcing when pressing the J1772 handle's latch and pulling it out of the adapter (which remained in the car's port). Almost sh!t my pants when this happened. That quickly taught me to stop charging via the app before even touching the handle whenever using the J1772 adapter. This was at work where we had free charging from a 30A ChargePoint CT4000 over 5 years ago.

I looked this up, Tesla's are not the only ones with reported J1772 arcing. I looked up "J1772 arcing" and found examples from other brands.

One of the results pointed to the spec of the AC contactor disconnect being at 100ms after control pilot disconnect. and that there is a 14mm inset of the pins. That means 14cm/sec withdrawal speed to avoid arcing, a relatively slow speed. The argument is, as such, it's not actually to prevent arcing, but rather live contact exposure.
Stopping charging

 

[davewill]

Count me as one of those who has seen / heard arcing when pressing the J1772 handle's latch and pulling it out of the adapter (which remained in the car's port). Almost sh!t my pants when this happened. That quickly taught me to stop charging via the app before even touching the handle whenever using the J1772 adapter. This was at work where we had free charging from a 30A ChargePoint CT4000 over 5 years ago.

If you wait for the car to release the adapter and pull them out together, you absolutely cannot have any arcing. The car doesn't release the adapter until after it's shut down the AC feed.

 

[DuncanM]

Count me as one of those who has seen / heard arcing when pressing the J1772 handle's latch and pulling it out of the adapter (which remained in the car's port). Almost sh!t my pants when this happened. That quickly taught me to stop charging via the app before even touching the handle whenever using the J1772 adapter. This was at work where we had free charging from a 30A ChargePoint CT4000 over 5 years ago.

Press the J1772 release button and the car's charge port light will turn white, then it is safe to withdraw the J1772 plug and adapter combo.

 

[RayK]

If you wait for the car to release the adapter and pull them out together, you absolutely cannot have any arcing. The car doesn't release the adapter until after it's shut down the AC feed.

Press the J1772 release button and the car's charge port light will turn white, then it is safe to withdraw the J1772 plug and adapter combo.

Yes, all well and good as long as the button/latch/signal are operating as it should. I now take the fail-safe option when charging with any adapter (J1772, CHAdeMO, CCS) and have since first stopped the charging session, either by app or by the car's screen, or visually confirmed that charging has stopped on the car's screen, before attempting to remove the handle/adapter combo. I was an idiot before when I grabbed the J1772 handle, pressed the button and almost simultaneously removed the handle from the adapter. This is my idiot-proof method .

 

[davewill]

Yes, all well and good as long as the button/latch/signal are operating as it should. I now take the fail-safe option when charging with any adapter (J1772, CHAdeMO, CCS) and have since first stopped the charging session, either by app or by the car's screen, or visually confirmed that charging has stopped on the car's screen, before attempting to remove the handle/adapter combo. I was an idiot before when I grabbed the J1772 handle, pressed the button and almost simultaneously removed the handle from the adapter. This is my idiot-proof method .

Yeah, we're saying that you're going overboard. If the port unlocks and releases the adapter, you're good, no danger at all. The worst that could happen is that a faulty button DOESN'T stop the charge, in which case it wouldn't release the adapter. Then you might have to resort to shutting it down some other way.

 

[cpa]

OK, I am an outlier.

And, I never saw the detailed instructions in the manual. In fact, I don't have a manual that is easily accessible because I have to comb through a bunch of stuff on my Tesla account in order to find it. But I digress.

My procedure:

Open charge port from the touch screen.
Unlock charge port from the touch screen.
Insert J1772 adapter.
Activate (if necessary) J1772 charger.
Insert J1772 plug into the adapter until it snaps into place.
Watch to make sure the ring flashes green and then confirm on the display the kilowatts going into the car.

Deactivate (if necessary) J1772 charger. If the charger is on demand, then press "stop charging" from the touchscreen.
Unlock charge port.
Remove both the adapter and the J1772 plug together. Detach the adapter and replace the charge cable properly.
Close charge flap.

I go through this exercise sans the adapter with the HPWC and for most Supercharging sessions.

I have not seen to my knowledge any arcing with this procedure.

 

[ewoodrick]

OK, I am an outlier.

And, I never saw the detailed instructions in the manual. In fact, I don't have a manual that is easily accessible because I have to comb through a bunch of stuff on my Tesla account in order to find it. But I digress.

My procedure:

Open charge port from the touch screen.
Unlock charge port from the touch screen.
Insert J1772 adapter.
Activate (if necessary) J1772 charger.
Insert J1772 plug into the adapter until it snaps into place.
Watch to make sure the ring flashes green and then confirm on the display the kilowatts going into the car.

Deactivate (if necessary) J1772 charger. If the charger is on demand, then press "stop charging" from the touchscreen.
Unlock charge port.
Remove both the adapter and the J1772 plug together. Detach the adapter and replace the charge cable properly.
Close charge flap.

I go through this exercise sans the adapter with the HPWC and for most Supercharging sessions.

I have not seen to my knowledge any arcing with this procedure.

Hard to find manual? Tesla manuals are probably the easiest to find of all autos, maybe even all products. Search for "Tesla Model 3 Manual" (or whatever model) takes you right to it. It's also available on the screen in the car and should have been in the glovebox.

Opening the Charge Port​

The charge port is located on the left side of Model 3, behind a door that is part of the rear tail light assembly. Park Model 3 to ensure that the charge cable easily reaches the charge port.
With Model 3 in Park, press and release the button on the Tesla charge cable to open the charge port door.

You can also open the charge port door using any of these methods:

• On the touchscreen, touch Controls and touch the Charge Port icon (lightning bolt).
• On the touchscreen, navigate to Controls > Charging > Open Charge Port.
• Press the bottom of the charge port door when Model 3 is unlocked.
• When the vehicle is locked with an authenticated key in range, you can also press the button on the charge cable to open the charge port door (see Keys).
• Use voice commands to open the charge port door (see Voice Commands). You can also use voice commands to close the charge port door, and begin or stop charging.

Plugging In​

If desired, use the touchscreen to change the charge limit and the charging current (see Charge Settings).
To charge at a public charging station, plug the appropriate adapter into the vehicle's charging port, and then connect the station's charging connector to the adapter. The most commonly used adapter(s) for each market region are provided. Depending on the charging equipment you are using, you may need to start and stop charging using a control on the charging equipment.
If you are using the Mobile Connector, plug into the power outlet before plugging in Model 3.
Align the connector to the charge port and insert fully. When the connector is properly inserted, charging begins automatically after Model 3:

• Engages a latch that holds the connector in place;
• Shifts into Park (if it was in any other drive mode);
• Heats or cools the Battery, if needed. If the Battery requires heating or cooling, you may notice a delay before charging begins.

Stopping Charging​

To disconnect the charge cable when using an adapter at a public charge station:

1. Unlock Model 3.
2. While holding the public charging handle in one hand and the adapter in the other hand, press and hold the button on the public charging handle and pull both outwards, removing the handle and adapter at the same time.
   Note: Press and hold the button on the charging handle again to release the adapter from the public charging handle.
   If the charging station handle separates from the adapter, leaving the adapter in Model 3, use the touchscreen to unlock the charge port.

 

[cpa]

Mister Well-Known Member:

The purpose of what I wrote was simply to share with others what I do most of the time. I did not feel that it was relevant to explain my reasons. But you sorta forced my hand.

I have driven over 107,000 miles in our 2014 S. I am acutely aware of the button on the Tesla charging plug. When I first started driving ten years ago and using Superchargers, the handle was effing hot (hot enough to burn my hands) if I held onto it for any length of time during our triple-digit summers. I decided to use the touchscreen to minimize the amount of time I had to hold onto the plug handle. Yeah, I could have carried rags to use, but my way worked. Moreover, some of those original 90kW Superchargers had bad buttons that would not open or disengage the charge port easily. I have continued this practice to this day.

Our car did not come with a manual in the glove box. (A "Quick Guide" for child safety seats, towing, tire stuff, but no manual.) But I am sure that you know that, but decided to twist the knife anyway.

I am also positive that you know that our car does not respond to voice commands regarding the charge port but decided to throw that in there as well.

I am not fond of groping and guessing on the slow-responding touchscreen to search for something as simple as plugging in my car. If my technique works, why should I spend a lot of time to see if there is another method? This may be something that you enjoy doing, but not I.

It is unclear to me whether you are condescending or not, because your comment was not helpful in the least.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Mister Well-Known Member:

The purpose of what I wrote was simply to share with others what I do most of the time. I did not feel that it was relevant to explain my reasons. But you sorta forced my hand.

I have driven over 107,000 miles in our 2014 S. I am acutely aware of the button on the Tesla charging plug. When I first started driving ten years ago and using Superchargers, the handle was effing hot (hot enough to burn my hands) if I held onto it for any length of time during our triple-digit summers. I decided to use the touchscreen to minimize the amount of time I had to hold onto the plug handle. Yeah, I could have carried rags to use, but my way worked. Moreover, some of those original 90kW Superchargers had bad buttons that would not open or disengage the charge port easily. I have continued this practice to this day.

Our car did not come with a manual in the glove box. (A "Quick Guide" for child safety seats, towing, tire stuff, but no manual.) But I am sure that you know that, but decided to twist the knife anyway.

I am also positive that you know that our car does not respond to voice commands regarding the charge port but decided to throw that in there as well.

I am not fond of groping and guessing on the slow-responding touchscreen to search for something as simple as plugging in my car. If my technique works, why should I spend a lot of time to see if there is another method? This may be something that you enjoy doing, but not I.

It is unclear to me whether you are condescending or not, because your comment was not helpful in the least.

I think he is talking about ease of finding the Tesla manual and it's contents on Google (since you are posting here on the Internet, I think the default assumption is you would be using a device with a browser and search engine).

I tend to agree. Tesla is one of the few manufacturers where it is quite easy to find the manual on the Internet, given no login/VIN is required to access it, and it is already in web format so often you get linked to the exact page if you do a keyword search.

If you don't want to use search, the manuals for all models is here:

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual

For charging products here:

https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/product-guides

One other tip: after selecting a manual for a particular vehicle, you can scroll down to the bottom and there is a link to "Download PDF". I personally keep a PDF copy of the manual on my phone, which allows me it reference it on the go even without Internet.

I prefer PDF manuals over paper ones because I can easily use a keyword search to find the content I want (instead of hoping the manual has a good index).