Poll on V11 interface

[sleepydoc]

I don't do any of that I'm just driving and hey if I'm overwhelmed with tech I should probably pull over so that I don't endanger anyone if I have to do two pages of things just to drive. I don't use the auto highbeams because I think they annoy people anyway.

If you're that involved though you really should pull over. Good thing you have a Tesla so many kids lost there lives because cars without seat heaters and they froze to death.

Isn't this all fixed in the new update anyway? Can you give me a new list after the custom icon update?

I've never had foggy windows what do you turn your climate off and fog and freeze your children?

The entire point of a well designed interface is that common and important functions are easy to find and do, especially in a car. If you have to pull over then the Tesla UI team has failed utterly and completely.

I’m on 2022.4.5.21 (FSD 11.2) so I haven’t gotten any of the ‘fixes.’ (Correction - the driver profile is now at the top of the screen when the car is in park so when the car’s trying to smash my knees because it’s going to my wife’s profile it’s easer to stop. Small victories) It sounds like several things have improved with the latest version but I can’t comment because I can’t use it.

You supposedly live in PA but have never had foggy windows? You’re either a liar or a troll. But to play along with your game, yes - if defrosting the window so I can see means people’s feet freeze then that’s more important. Except I rear ended the car I couldn’t see because the window was fogged up and I was fiddling with the screen trying to get the defroster on.

 

[Ramphex]

• Changing the temp because I’m no longer comfortable.
• Turning the heated seats on/off because the ‘auto’ funciton doesn’t work.
• Trying to turn off auto dimming headlights so they don’t piss people off
• Trying to turn on my headlights because they’re not on but it’s raining/snowing/sleeting and they need to be on
• Turning on the defroster so I can see.
• Turning off the defroster so I can hear
• Turning on the rear window defogger
• Turning on the rear seat heaters so my kids don’t freeze
• Trying to change the view of the map so it has the proper orientation
• checking to see what my Energy efficiency is for this trip
• trying to connect the car to my phone’s wifi hotspot
• Swiping away one message so I can see another one that was obscured

You’ll note what I didn’t list:

• Playing sonic the hedgehog
• playing backgammon
• making fart noises
• browsing the web
• watching youtube videos
• Checking my calendar
• Switching between any of the audio options that I don’t use (spotify, tidal, caraoke, tunein,)
• Looking at an energy display that takes half of the screen to give me less useful information than I got from the trip card before

It’s great that you never need to use the user interface, but the fact is many people do. That’s why it’s called a User interface.

As I was going down your list, I realized you drive either model 3 or model y, had to turn the phone sideways to see your sig and confirm.

 

[OliverM3]

I’m on 2022.4.5.21 (FSD 11.2) so I haven’t gotten any of the ‘fixes.’ (Correction - the driver profile is now at the top of the screen when the car is in park so when the car’s trying to smash my knees because it’s going to my wife’s profile it’s easer to stop. Small victories) It sounds like several things have improved with the latest version but I can’t comment because I can’t use it.

You supposedly live in PA but have never had foggy windows? You’re either a liar or a troll. But to play along with your game, yes - if defrosting the window so I can see means people’s feet freeze then that’s more important. Except I rear ended the car I couldn’t see because the window was fogged up and I was fiddling with the screen trying to get the defroster on.

That's not nice! Really it's been flawless. I usually leave my AC on in the rain and snow and never ever put on recirculate. Keeping all that humidity in the car is bad. You need to keep outside air on when you are in bad weather. I've learned that with all the hoopties I've owned. Not being a troll we've had the crappiest year weather wise I feel like I live in Seattle with all the rain.

I honestly set the temp and radio and drive. Here and there I may hit the temp arrow up and down but it's right there on the screen so not a big deal. Crappy cars with fog issues or bad heater core you could quickly crack all of the windows to unfog but I haven't had any of that with my car.

There's nothing I see from V10 that I feel like I'm missing. Again the wipers suck and no matter where you put them on the screen they will still suck. They need to make a better stalk. defrost and other things like seats that you're complaining about has been fixed in the update what more do you want?

 

[OliverM3]

It's a shame Tesla doesn't allow people to roll back or keep a version they love. But I mean I get it just like at work if you're not on the latest version they're not wasting time supporting something that's dead and none of their techs know. It's a waste of money supporting something that's far out of date.
It's the same with any software company. But still it would be cool if it was allowed at least until you needed support then it would be a forced upgrade.
People loved XP oh and that damn ribbon on office how is hiding everything a good thing? And we still use that everyday.

 

[PACEMD]

It's a shame Tesla doesn't allow people to roll back or keep a version they love. But I mean I get it just like at work if you're not on the latest version they're not wasting time supporting something that's dead and none of their techs know. It's a waste of money supporting something that's far out of date.
It's the same with any software company. But still it would be cool if it was allowed at least until you needed support then it would be a forced upgrade.
People loved XP oh and that damn ribbon on office how is hiding everything a good thing? And we still use that everyday.

I also liked XP but had to leave Windows after that finally expired. Unfortunately, we still have to deal with Windows at work.

 

[OliverM3]

I also liked XP but had to leave Windows after that finally expired. Unfortunately, we still have to deal with Windows at work.

Yeah and I'm sure their hands are tied. To allow that would be breaking the law. When they force a recall of say the recent boombox nonsense they really can't leave people on a version that allows that.

 

[PACEMD]

Yeah and I'm sure their hands are tied. To allow that would be breaking the law. When they force a recall of say the recent boombox nonsense they really can't leave people on a version that allows that.

I never played with boombox but I hear it's a real deathtrap........more dangerous than squeaky the mouseketeer.

 

[PACEMD]

Oh no, cojones crying in the rain, on the back 40, you know, on the downslide.......tout de suite.......

 

[Transformer]

I'm having trouble distinguishing the joking, sarcasm, exaggeration to try to be heard, personal attacks, etc. We could chill out.

About the state of V11:

• As of 2022.12.* (which I don't yet have) it seems to fix most of the usability problems of V11.
• V11 includes usability improvements that matter: Some tap targets are larger and closer to the bottom or side of the screen. Some buttons are spaced further apart. (Trying to tap temperature up/down on V10, I'd often hit the seat heaters.) Swiping up from the bottom is easier than tapping. Fewer invisible places to swipe. You can change the bottom bar buttons by season or for a road trip.
• I'd still like to get back the larger/bolder speedometer, increased map contrast, and smaller car visualization (digital twin) from 18 months ago. Go back to the upper part of the screen for info like the secondary location for navigation instructions, to laying out info vertically rather than overlapping, and get consistent with blue/gray button states. Restore the calendar sync filters. Add a fog lights button to the headlights temporary pop-up.
• I'd still like the car to recognize most voice commands in-car, without the network. Make it better at guessing the driver profile and easier to stop the seat adjustment when it guesses wrong. Also some features are still hidden -- a problem for drivers who aren't reading the forums -- like how to add the defrost button back to the bottom bar and figuring out the tire pressure feature while parked.
• Individual differences (a UI term) matter a lot. I need larger text to read it quickly. It takes me a couple seconds (no exaggeration) per tap on the screen while driving, partly because of the motion. Trying to answer a phone call on V10 at 25 MPH, I carefully aimed then tapped the green button mid-screen, and a bump in the road made my finger hit the button a second time, thus answering and hanging up the call. Now I always brace my hand on an edge of the screen to use it while driving.
• Tesla is improving the voice command documentation, although the Owner's manual says that page is a "complete list."
• The software bugs are a separate problem from the UI design & test problems. Tesla could do better on both, and on release docs, and add a bug report channel.

 

[sleepydoc]

That's not nice! Really it's been flawless. I usually leave my AC on in the rain and snow and never ever put on recirculate. Keeping all that humidity in the car is bad. You need to keep outside air on when you are in bad weather. I've learned that with all the hoopties I've owned. Not being a troll we've had the crappiest year weather wise I feel like I live in Seattle with all the rain.

I honestly set the temp and radio and drive. Here and there I may hit the temp arrow up and down but it's right there on the screen so not a big deal. Crappy cars with fog issues or bad heater core you could quickly crack all of the windows to unfog but I haven't had any of that with my car.

There's nothing I see from V10 that I feel like I'm missing. Again the wipers suck and no matter where you put them on the screen they will still suck. They need to make a better stalk. defrost and other things like seats that you're complaining about has been fixed in the update what more do you want?

In every car I’ve had until this point A/C came on automatically with the defrost (or at least down to freezing) so all I had to do was hit the defrost button. If had the output split between the windshield and dash or floor vents I could just tap the A/C button. In my other cars, I don’t leave the A/C on unless it’s necessary because it wastes fuel and also puts needless wear and tear on the compressor. In the fall, winter and early spring, you often need to have both the heat and A/C on - heat to warm the cabin and A/C to defrost it. Even in the winter when the air is dry you get snow melt from boots that causes the inside of the windows to fog or frost up. I don’t like to run the A/C more than necessary in my MY partly for the same reason - decreased efficiency, but honestly I’m not sure how the equation works out with a heat pump. I’m also not sure how it would both heat and dehumidify the air. In a the winter time you often need to switch back and forth between the heat and the defroster. Setting to ‘auto’ just doesn’t work.

You’re right - if all you do is set the temp and tweak it up and down occasionally it’s fine; no different than it was before. It’s still slightly more difficult than most other cars that have a knob that allows you to do it without looking but it’s the best Tesla can do with a touch screen.

I just went out and played with the controls in my MY again and even when I’m sitting in the garage I find the heating controls somewhat confusing. The heated passenger seat doesn’t turn off automatically even if there’s no one sitting in it. If you turn the defroster on then it sets the temp and fans to max but then when you turn it off the temp doesn’t return to the previous setting so you have to reset it manually. Changing the temperature more than one degree is also something that is clearly worse in a Tesla. Repeatedly tapping a button on a touch screen in a moving car is far more distracting than a physical knob or even physical buttons. The seat heater also turned on randomly for no clear reason. (I think it may have come on when I set it to Auto?)

The bottom line is that even after using V11 for 4 months it is more difficult to use and the ‘auto’ settings simply don’t reliably do what I need them to do so arguing that they are a substitute for a well designed UI is farcical.

Edit - I’m currently on FSD 11.2/2022.4.5.21 so I don’t yet have the improvements you mention. I’m happy they made them and it sounds like they will help to address the issues. Hopefully I get them soon but one of the problems with being in the FSD program is you actually get fewer updates.

 

[sleepydoc]

Tesla is improving the voice command documentation, although the Owner's manual says that page is a "complete list."

so why should you ever need to use a voice command to display Netflix?

I can’t verify if that list is complete or not but noticed that there were many commands that did not have an opposite available. (e.g. “Make it warmer” is on the list but not “make it colder”

 

[OliverM3]

In every car I’ve had until this point A/C came on automatically with the defrost (or at least down to freezing) so all I had to do was hit the defrost button. If had the output split between the windshield and dash or floor vents I could just tap the A/C button. In my other cars, I don’t leave the A/C on unless it’s necessary because it wastes fuel and also puts needless wear and tear on the compressor. In the fall, winter and early spring, you often need to have both the heat and A/C on - heat to warm the cabin and A/C to defrost it. Even in the winter when the air is dry you get snow melt from boots that causes the inside of the windows to fog or frost up. I don’t like to run the A/C more than necessary in my MY partly for the same reason - decreased efficiency, but honestly I’m not sure how the equation works out with a heat pump. I’m also not sure how it would both heat and dehumidify the air. In a the winter time you often need to switch back and forth between the heat and the defroster. Setting to ‘auto’ just doesn’t work.

You’re right - if all you do is set the temp and tweak it up and down occasionally it’s fine; no different than it was before. It’s still slightly more difficult than most other cars that have a knob that allows you to do it without looking but it’s the best Tesla can do with a touch screen.

I just went out and played with the controls in my MY again and even when I’m sitting in the garage I find the heating controls somewhat confusing. The heated passenger seat doesn’t turn off automatically even if there’s no one sitting in it. If you turn the defroster on then it sets the temp and fans to max but then when you turn it off the temp doesn’t return to the previous setting so you have to reset it manually. Changing the temperature more than one degree is also something that is clearly worse in a Tesla. Repeatedly tapping a button on a touch screen in a moving car is far more distracting than a physical knob or even physical buttons. The seat heater also turned on randomly for no clear reason. (I think it may have come on when I set it to Auto?)

The bottom line is that even after using V11 for 4 months it is more difficult to use and the ‘auto’ settings simply don’t reliably do what I need them to do so arguing that they are a substitute for a well designed UI is farcical.

Edit - I’m currently on FSD 11.2/2022.4.5.21 so I don’t yet have the improvements you mention. I’m happy they made them and it sounds like they will help to address the issues. Hopefully I get them soon but one of the problems with being in the FSD program is you actually get fewer updates.

Maybe that's also my reason for better results in bad weather? I honestly don't try to maximize range with climate controls I just make the cabin comfortable I have plenty of range for where I travel.

 

[chinney]

I rarely even touch the screen what are you guys doing and am I missing something cool to do when I'm driving? I set my temp and music everyday and drive on my 100 mile commute. Wipers are about the only thing i touch and that wouldn't improve no mater where you place it on a touchscreen.

I definitely can imagine improvements to the V11 on-screen UI wiper controls to make them easier to adjust while driving. And it is not just the wiper control - a lot of people have pointed out that drivers do interact with the vehicle UI for a lot of other legitimate reasons while driving. Making this easy to do is important.

In my view V11 is not terrible. It has a number of improvements over V10, but it also made things worse in certain ways. That said, Tesla has been making series of adjustments and I am confident that they will make more.

 

[Transformer]

so why should you ever need to use a voice command to display Netflix?

Indeed. (Or a Theater button on the driving screen.)

I can’t verify if that list is complete or not but noticed that there were many commands that did not have an opposite available. (e.g. “Make it warmer” is on the list but not “make it colder”

User-generated lists like V11 Tesla Voice Commands and Tesla Voice Commands have more entries, but not all the same entries and maybe some commands will/have gone away.

The opposites are puzzling and make it harder to remember. Tesla Voice Commands says you can ask "Make it cooler." It doesn't mention "Make it colder" and the other references don't mention it at all.

"Turn recirculation off" or "Disable recirculation" will turn ON recirculation. "Fresh air" works reliably. "Turn off recirculation" sometimes works.

• It'd really help if the car spoke the command interpretation and if it had an UNDO command to use when it misinterprets the command.

 

[sleepydoc]

Maybe that's also my reason for better results in bad weather? I honestly don't try to maximize range with climate controls I just make the cabin comfortable I have plenty of range for where I travel.

perhaps. I can say that in general I’m rarely happy with the job that any auto climate control system does, be it Tesla or another make. There’s some things they do well but often they don’t quite get it. IME, Tesla’s is no different and perhaps a bit worse than average. Either way I end up interacting with the system on a regular basis.

 

[bredi]

Ever try to explain how to operate your car to your senior parents? A friend? Here's the key/keycard, go have fun and take the grandkids for a trip. How long before a call from your grandpa or grandma who is frustrated they can't do something, and they are on the freeway? Oh, hit the small lighting icon for Charging on the map. "Its not there!" oh, tap the nav map first. Then its there. And its small light grey on white. Their vision isn't as good as a 20 year old's. Crap like that; is Asinine.

The best UX design is one that doesn't need a manual. it is intuitive enough. But these UX designer adhere to "invisible" design, where things are Smaller type, with less contrast, hide icons, afraid of color and hide functionality until you tap, swipe or long press and in the case of tesla, put en emphasis on entertainment and game accessibility over car functionality.

I'm on my 4th Tesla. I drive my Model S and when I get in the M3P, it takes me awhile to adjust to the UI. Just putting the Autopilot on the right instead of left messes me up. BTW, who would think to enable autopilot by pushing the D N R stock down while driving! I have been driving teslas for 7 years now! and sometimes even I can't remember how to do something.

Just cause you know how to do something after some either showed you or you watched a video, doesn't make it good design. Again, the test of good UX design is if someone with no prior experience, can operate or navigate with out looking sh$t up on google.