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Porsche pajun / 717 EV (rumor)

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by 30seconds, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. 30seconds

    30seconds Active Member

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    #1 30seconds, Jan 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2015
  2. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    LOL. News flash Porsche - Tesla has been making EVs with a range of 240+ miles for 7 years now.
     
  3. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    Porsche research and development boss Wolfgang Hatz has dismissed reports that the firm is planning to launch a rival to the Tesla Model S, based on the new Panamera platform.

    While the smaller version of the Panamera (Pajun) is likely to make production, an all-electric version currently isn't possible, according to Hatz.
    “We are a sports car firm, and that brings with it certain expectations,” he said. “A Tesla is a fine car, but you cannot drive it enthusiastically without losing range or performance too quickly. Until the technology offers a solution to those problems, we will not be looking at launching such a car.”

    Porsche denies Tesla Model S rival is in development | Autocar
     
  4. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    You mean "News flash, autonews.com." I don't think Porsche wrote that article.
     
  5. bluenation

    bluenation Member

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    i dont think many porsche enthusiasts would be ok with them making a car that has a speed limiter at 150mph and batt overheating that limits how many laps or launches you can do

    but then again

    they launched a buncha SUV's so...
     
  6. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    911 purist bemoan the introduction of every new Porsche other than Supercars.

    From the 944 to the Boxter to Panamera. And especially the CUVs.
     
  7. ScepticMatt

    ScepticMatt Member

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    It was never sure whether this is getting funded or not.
    Even the original Autobild article has told us about 'shaky funding' .
     
  8. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Porsche pajun EV

    "Porsche research and development boss Wolfgang Hatz has dismissed reports that the firm is planning to launch a rival to Tesla... “We are a sports car firm, and that brings with it certain expectations,” he said. “A Tesla is a fine car, but you cannot drive it enthusiastically without losing range or performance too quickly. Until the technology offers a solution to those problems, we will not be looking at launching such a car."
    -------------------------------------
    Wolfgang, wake up! Tesla has already solved those "problems". I sold a Porsche Cayman to buy a Roadster. I consider the problems solved! Only a small percentage of Porsche owners ever track their cars or drive for extended distances at over 80mph. For those who want to do that, for now they can buy an ICE. But right now Porsche is one of the walking dead: the company doesn't realize that the EV revolution is going forward without them.

    When Tesla launches the next generation Roadster sometime in the next decade it will crush the most powerful 911 and be much less expensive. But long before then Porsche will be on the ropes because the Model X and the Model 3 SUV version will have decimated Porsche's Cayenne and Macan sales. The Model S has already taken a big bite out of Panamera sales m
     
  9. bluenation

    bluenation Member

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    oh yea i forgot the panamera...god what an ugly coffin.

    is there any sales data proving this? just curious
     
  10. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    Uhm...you do realize that Porsche has the fastest production vehicle around the Nurbergring equipped with electric-motors, don't you? As far as the next Roadster goes, do you know something everybody else doesn't? If you have details, please share :)
     
  11. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    There can't be definitive proof. But sales for Panamera have gone down then held steady while Model S sales keep growing.


    In the US Panamera sales hit a high of 7600 in 2012 and were 5700 in 2014.

    Porsche Panamera Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR



    Similar numbers in Europe outside Germany and Austria.

    But there is no equivalent free site that I know of for Europe.

    At this blog you can see what has happened to Panamera PHEV sales.

    EV Sales

    - - - Updated - - -

    And Kodak invented the digital camera in 1975.

    But if you don't market and sell your breakthroughs it does not mean anything.
     
  12. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    Sure, but it's absurd to assert that Porsche is "dead" because they don't have any public announcement of a pure EV. And Porsche's sub 7-minute Ring time has been well advertised.
     
  13. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    #13 ecarfan, Jan 24, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
    Porsche pajun EV

    I said "Porsche is one of the walking dead: the company doesn't realize that the EV revolution is going forward without them". Let me explain that further...

    Porsche's excuse for not producing a quality EV (an extremely limited electric range hybrid like the 918 is not an EV!) is that "you cannot drive it enthusiastically without losing range or performance too quickly".

    Tesla has already proved with the Roadster and the Model S that you can drive "enthusiastically" and still have plenty of range for the vast majority of trips, and that with the S you can recharge quickly and then be on your way. Tesla did that years ago and Porsche is still pretending like nothing has happened!

    Porsche is in denial. They don't know how to build EVs that can compete with Tesla so they simply deny that they are any good.

    Porsche has become the emperor who has no clothes. The company looks foolish. They built two all-electric Boxsters years ago and then failed to follow up. Which is part of the reason why I sold two Porsches to buy a Model S and a Roadster. And before I did that it was my father that got me looking seriously at Tesla when he sold his Panamera to buy a Model S.

    My father had owned three Porsches before becoming a Tesla owner. I had owned five Porsches. I'm pretty sure that neither of us will ever own another Porsche.
     
  14. swaltner

    swaltner Member

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    Giving the reason of not making an EV as "the range sucks when driven aggressively" is pretty lame.

    My Ariel Atom generally gets 22 mpg when driven on the street. I'm lucky to get 9 mpg when I take it to the race track. I guess a supercharged ICE isn't a valid powerplant because the range sucks when driven on a race track. Since that's not a viable option, we better scrap EVERY performance car for having the same limitation.
     
  15. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    And F1 cars have had electric motor assist (KERS) for many years. But they are not EVs. Neither are the Porsche 918/McLaren P1/LaFerrari production vehicles that have electric assist for an ICE drivetrain.
     
  16. bluenation

    bluenation Member

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    i think one of the unfortunate things about Tesla fanboys is this undercurrent of feeling that, for Tesla to succeed, other car manufacturers, with their PHEV's and ICE's, must be doomed in some form.

    you guys love comparing tesla to apple? well how bout take the advice from Steve Jobs when he first got back into Apple in the late nineties: "We have to get away from this thinking, that for Apple to succeed, Microsoft must fail."

    take note. exaggerated hostility never helps.
     
  17. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    It is equally absurd to suggest that Porsche and VW AG is fine postponing serious electrification efforts indefinitely.

    Half-ass sub 100 mile BEVs and limited 50 kWh CCS charger networks will not do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Take note; ad hominem attacks by calling people you disagree with "fanboys" er "fanbois" does not help.

    What you infer as exaggerated hostility is usually exasperated disappointment.

    I don't want the legacy OEM's electrification efforts to fail. I want them to succeed.

    Benchmarking a 2012 Model S for a 2018-21 release will not succeed. Targeting a 2013 Outalander PHEV for a 2018-21 release will not succeed.

    The CCS network discussed by the Detroit-European companies to be implemented at some point in the future that is already behind the current Supercharger network will not succeed.

    It is extremely annoying highly paid executives at GM ,Ford, VW ,Daimler-Benz, BMW etc can't see the obvious.

    Toyota and Honda is whole different level of disappointment.
     
  18. bluenation

    bluenation Member

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    ok , i've seen that semantics argument before, so i feel it's important to clear up something:

    fan - someone who loves what tesla is doing, is a supporter of the EV-ification of transport, and is/will be their customer, but who doesnt diminish the value or worth of its competitors. and also is honest with the many improvements that tesla needs to make, to bring themselves up to par.

    fanboy (or girl) - someone whose love of tesla blinds them of proper perspective or rationality, & also entails saying really dumb things, like 'porsche is doomed!' or taking what elon says on its face value, with minimal skepticism.

    most of us, i hope, wishes to be the former. but there are those who seem to be in the latter - and they drag the discussion down. It's not just a TMC thing either - all enthusiast forums would do well to minimize fanboyism. And they exist here.

    now that discussion aside,

    i do not share your level of disapointment with all the manufacturers. Sure, i bash FCV's and PHEV's like anyone else. But at least with PHEV's, they are a realistic solution to a real fear: lack of infrastructure, and lack of familiarity for the masses when it comes to pure EVs. I don't like them, but they are a realistic answer that will most definitely *not* mean Porsche is doomed. Saying something like that is past reasonable discussion - it's stupid. It kills quality discussion.

    Newsflash: not that i think is likely, but chances are greater that tesla dies in the next few years, not porsche.

    and also, we won't have everyone become Tesla clones. as much as i'd like to see that, it's not a realistic answer. And not doing it like tesla, doesn't mean you're dead.

    anyways, come 2020, we'll see who's really right.
     
  19. Kipernicus

    Kipernicus Model S Res#P1440

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    I think that "you cannot drive it enthusiastically without losing range or performance too quickly" is a perfectly valid reason for Porsche not to produce a pure BEV.

    We know that the Model S cannot go all out on the track for more than about 1 lap. We know that it cannot maintain 200kph on the autobahn for hours at a stretch.
    Never mind that most people never do these things, its not about the average use case or even the 99% use case.

    It's about Porsche's brand ethos, that every Porsche must have the capability to drive "enthusiastically" (and of course that definition is debatable) for longer than a BEV can do today. I don't hold that against them.

    I do feel that eventually Tesla will have the technology to produce such a car and Porsche will be constrained to a shrinking niche market.
     
  20. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    This is why it would be so great to see a company like Porsche with a strong motorsports tradition build an EV.
    I think that both Tesla and Porsche have engineers smart enough to solve the problem - Tesla isn't motivated to do so, but Porsche would be.

    I think an EV that can lap a racetrack full out for most of an hour, then battery swap or accept a fast charge and be back on the track shortly would be accepted by many Porsche fans.
    ( Driving 200kph for multiple hours may be a tougher nut to crack )
     

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