Potential Repair costs

[cheshire cat]

whilst waiting for my Model 3 to arrive/ready for spec'ing (have a lot of patience) I will be keeping an eye out for any further tales like the one from Canada about the cost of a brake job and it's length of time to fix, even based on the unheard of concept of not wishing to make money out of servicing, I can't help think the price of spares is really over the top even by the inflated levels of our Germanic friends. I don't expect to be able to do everything myself but do play the concerned parent on the rare visit to the dealers (usually recalls) As the price of an item becomes more affordable and therefore more widely adopted the requirement for DIY will grow (( Fred's TDI club, and VCDS (thanks UWE) is a goldmine)) and shouldn't end up being counter productive regarding sales of new cars. (New readers start here: with Citroen Hydropneumatic suspension)

 

[Booga]

This is on my mind. I like that as motor issues surfaced for the Model S, Tesla extended the warranty coverage. I hope the motors are less risky to begin with on the Model 3, but if they have issues, Tesla stands by it. The economics of the car will be ruined by a $5k expense 1 year after warranty. I'm used to combustion engines lasting 20 years at this point for normal usage.

 

[Genshi]

Honestly, on a first gen vehicle, I'm expecting a bit more maintenance and a few more repairs. As long as it's appropriately taken care of under warranty and with a minimum of fuss, I'm willing to accept that. While I do trust Tesla, by and large, I'd be more comfortable if they did open up Model ≡ repairs to 3rd parties. If they really aren't using service as a revenue driver, it shouldn't hurt them from a financial perspective. In other ways, I'm not sure...

I'd be interested in hearing Tesla articulate the "why" of keeping repairs in house. The only logical reasoning I could come up with initially was that it gives them clearer data in assessing pervasive problems and trends, and also in maintaining ongoing relationships with their customers. We've seen what that's done for their Model S clients with regard to customer satisfaction & loyalty, so maybe that's their end goal. Either way, I'd like to hear them articulate their full reasoning in a single coherent argument/blog/etc.

 

[182RG]

As long as it's appropriately taken care of under warranty and with a minimum of fuss, I'm willing to accept that.

And when the warranty runs out? It's pretty clear Tesla doesn't want you performing your own maintenance and repairs, with service manuals only available to residents of the one state who has a strong "right to repair" law. (Massachusetts).

I don't think there are many running around out of warranty today. What is this going to mean for resale values? What was the purpose of the buyback guarantee? The warranty extension? It's either goodwill, or its Tesla kicking the can down the road to cover a potential longer term problem?

Maybe Tesla's will be like smartphones. Lease and replace.

I hope this starts to get sorted.

 

[182RG]

I'd be interested in hearing Tesla articulate the "why" of keeping repairs in house.

Simple. It controls the message. Think about it.

 

[HanSolo]

At this point with Tesla entering the realm of true mass production, they better nail everything down solid. Any large failure rate on a component will ruin them. They are entering the realm where bad parts can cost billions instead of millions.

I have traditionally used dealers, but I have my limits if the service is exceptionally expensive. They have 12 months to make these details clear to me as my Plan B list continues to grow.

 

[Genshi]

Simple. It controls the message. Think about it.

I have, but there are a few messages you could be referring to... presumably you mean the potential messages that % failure rate of components might send?

In the future, please just convey your desired meaning up front, don't make us guess. It's too easy to misinterpret or apply emotional content to a leading statement online. Your post in this instance reads as condescension, but your other posts have generally presented well reasoned arguments, even if I don't always agree with them. (That's intended as a compliment, for reference, not a slight.)

 

[Genshi]

At this point with Tesla entering the realm of true mass production, they better nail everything down solid. Any large failure rate on a component will ruin them. They are entering the realm where bad parts can cost billions instead of millions.

I have traditionally used dealers, but I have my limits if the service is exceptionally expensive. They have 12 months to make these details clear to me as my Plan B list continues to grow.

I feel similarly. Generally I expect a certain level of failures in technology products and silicon valley, but with my car, house, and other durable long term, high cost expenses, I expect reliability and functionality first, and technological innovation and gimmicks as a very distant second priority.

 

[heysteveh]

This is on my mind. I like that as motor issues surfaced for the Model S, Tesla extended the warranty coverage. I hope the motors are less risky to begin with on the Model 3, but if they have issues, Tesla stands by it. The economics of the car will be ruined by a $5k expense 1 year after warranty. I'm used to combustion engines lasting 20 years at this point for normal usage.

My thought process exactly. At this point I would not own a Tesla outside of factory warranty/ESA as I feel the risk of drive motor failure or other expensive repairs would turn owning the car into a money pit. To be fair, I feel the same way about BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc. At this point, my thinking is that I would rather buy a new Model 3 and the ESA option, keep it for six years then sell it while it still has 2 years of warranty left so the resale value hasn't plummeted. For all the talk about how Tesla's will have less maintenance and be cheaper to maintain then an ICE, exorbitant repair costs on what DOES go wrong is the elephant in the room that nobody seems to talk about.

 

[182RG]

I have, but there are a few messages you could be referring to... presumably you mean the potential messages that % failure rate of components might send?

In the future, please just convey your desired meaning up front, don't make us guess.

In warranty, providing gold plated terms keeps satisfaction high, while masking failure rates and quality issues, regardless of cost to the company. It controls the message. They don't have a long term answer for cost of service and repair out of warranty, but early indications are that they are high, impacting resale and depreciation.

To me, their strict control over service manuals is sketchy. It's almost like they are positioning these cars as disposable. It doesn't bode well for those of us who prefer DIY, refuse to lease, and are concerned over resale value, specifically on the Model 3.

BTW, it's not condescension. I'm trying to provoke thought beyond the typical fanboy enthusiasm you find on here.

 

[SΞXY P100D]

There's a thread here regarding the expensive repair costs of brake pistons which concerns me. I thought of EVs as being less complicated than ICE, therefore less prone to repairs, therefore being less expensive to own. However, after reading through the TMC forums I'm beginning to wonder whether that's the case. I've read somewhere that Tesla has taken steps to simplify manufacturing of the Model 3, so I guess that should help.

 

[diamond.g]

It seems like the major concern is parts availability. Which should be minimized for things that are shared with other vehicles (brakes, tires, etc). Things that are not shared (door handles, center console) should be available at a reasonable cost. Which is where the issue appears to be, those things are not. The 3, in that respect, isn't going to make that issue any better (in my opinion).

I am curious to see the repairability of the Bolt EV when it comes out. Again I expect the "standard" things to be easily doable, but if the center console or the drivers console dies, how easy will it be to get a replacement. With LG building the drive train and battery system will there be plentiful replacement parts?

 

[cheshire cat]

I would be more than happy with an 8 year powertrain warranty, but would expect "consumables" to be reasonable ie: a PAIR of LEXUS discs(rotor) and pads run@ Dealer price approx $295 over here with aftermarket @ $140 I would expect more manufacturer/model orientated parts to be dearer and rightly so. I'm getting a little long in the tooth to be crawling on wet concrete but try to keep my hands dirty, this car will be my "Eastbourne special" so no interest in resale value etc. I favour Tesla over other brands despite not having bought one of their products yet, as they appear to have a refreshing outlook on customer relations. As an afterthought on the Canada job perhaps they could be programmed to exercise the brakes once put safely into park P.S I shall be hanging on to my shares TOO

 

[HanSolo]

I feel similarly. Generally I expect a certain level of failures in technology products and silicon valley, but with my car, house, and other durable long term, high cost expenses, I expect reliability and functionality first, and technological innovation and gimmicks as a very distant second priority.

That is why I am giving Tesla 12 months to make this clear. I swore to never buy British ever again after my 2 Land Rovers, but at least I knew what to expect when buying British. With Yesla, we just do not know. I value reliability and low cost of ownership above all else. I am not liking what I am currently reading. If the details are not clear, I will just buy something in plan B and would lean toward the Chevy Colorado diesel as they are getting really good fuel economy.

 

[diamond.g]

That is why I am giving Tesla 12 months to make this clear. I swore to never buy British ever again after my 2 Land Rovers, but at least I knew what to expect when buying British. With Yesla, we just do not know. I value reliability and low cost of ownership above all else. I am not liking what I am currently reading. If the details are not clear, I will just buy something in plan B and would lean toward the Chevy Colorado diesel as they are getting really good fuel economy.

I would treat Tesla like getting a BMW or Mercedes, more so than like getting a Honda Civic. Especially the first 5 to 10 thousand cars, they are bound to have teething issues with them. Though it is apparent (until reveal 2 at least) that the 3 is a simpler car than the X or S, so that is good.

Side note, I want to get a Colorado Diesel for my wife as she wants a truck, but cannot bring myself to give GM more money with all the shens they are pulling on Tesla [wrt dealership model].

 

[JeffK]

Chevy Colorado diesel

I hate being stuck behind diesel pick up trucks... so nasty, I can just feel the future lung disease festering. I need biohazard defense mode to be around those types of vehicles.

You know the non-diesel will get you better mpg, horsepower, and is arguably cleaner for everyone. The diesel does however have a duramax filter to send the exhaust through what amounts to dried urine (urea) inside so there's that...

Side note: I'm a GM hater after owning many, experiencing poor quality, failures, and having visited Detroit.

 

[HanSolo]

I would treat Tesla like getting a BMW or Mercedes, more so than like getting a Honda Civic. Especially the first 5 to 10 thousand cars, they are bound to have teething issues with them. Though it is apparent (until reveal 2 at least) that the 3 is a simpler car than the X or S, so that is good.

Side note, I want to get a Colorado Diesel for my wife as she wants a truck, but cannot bring myself to give GM more money with all the shens they are pulling on Tesla [wrt dealership model].

I am having that dilemma as well after GM screwed over tax payers after our gubmint overlords put themselves in a situation that allowed GM and FCA to pay back far less than we taxpayers gave them. However I like the utility of trucks and they are the only ones to offer a diesel in that class. The new Ford Ranger is expected to hit by 2019, but I do not want to wait and the F150 while gorgeous is far too expensive equipped the way I want it. I do intend on getting into a full EV by 2022 if I end up going with my plan B.

I hate being stuck behind diesel pick up trucks... so nasty, I can just feel the future lung disease festering. I need biohazard defense mode to be around those types of vehicles.

You know the non-diesel will get you better mpg, horsepower, and is arguably cleaner for everyone. The diesel does however have a duramax filter to send the exhaust through what amounts to dried urine (urea) inside so there's that...

Side note: I'm a GM hater after owning many, experiencing poor quality, failures, and having visited Detroit.

The diesel Colorado is being reported by many owners to get better than the EPA rating of 31mpg. Even the petrol based 4 pot barely gets 24mpg. Diesels in America are extremely clean as we have the strictest diesel emissions regulations in the world. The problem I have are these selfish pricks who perform illegal calibrations to their PCM with some even disabling and removing the emissions components. Even worse are those coal rollers who need to be put in jail.

 

[Genshi]

In warranty, providing gold plated terms keeps satisfaction high, while masking failure rates and quality issues, regardless of cost to the company. It controls the message. They don't have a long term answer for cost of service and repair out of warranty, but early indications are that they are high, impacting resale and depreciation.

To me, their strict control over service manuals is sketchy. It's almost like they are positioning these cars as disposable. It doesn't bode well for those of us who prefer DIY, refuse to lease, and are concerned over resale value, specifically on the Model 3.

BTW, it's not condescension. I'm trying to provoke thought beyond the typical fanboy enthusiasm you find on here.

I actually struggled with the depreciation question quite a bit when I built a spreadsheet to compare costs over 5 years vs some of the others we were considering. I ended up settling at 1.15 times an Audi A4's depreciation, because of those open questions about maintenance, repairs costs, and also (and perhaps even more importantly) exactly what you point out last... the disposable nature of electric cars thus far. My reasoning for them being more disposable at this juncture is primarily the expected increased size of batteries, and the quick evolution of features & sensors. For now at least, they're moving quite quickly... whether that continues is an open question.

I appreciate why you're trying to provoke additional thought. For myself, I'm a huge fan of Tesla and what Elon Musk is trying to do, but I also take a practical and analytical view of what that means for consumers. I'm still not sold on the Model ≡ yet, but I want it to work for the aforementioned reasons. That won't, however, blindly lead me to purchase the car unless the product itself is compelling on its own.

 

[182RG]

I hate being stuck behind diesel pick up trucks... so nasty, I can just feel the future lung disease festering. I need biohazard defense mode to be around those types of vehicles.

Actually, the back of my Touareg TDI smells like bleach. Makes me feel like I'm in a laundromat. Clean, fresh....

 

[CarlitoDoc]

To OP: At least be a assured that most of the "issues" with the first Model 3s will likely be addressed by the time vehicles make it to the UK.