Powerwall 2: SGIP/Incentives

[Kren]

Just got a quote from Swell Energy. This price seems amazing but something feels off about their ITC rebate. They're doing 30% off total amount. Was this assumed to be correct?

Their price is not amazing. Careful with the ITC rebate. This seems to be inaccurate according to folks on this forum.

 

[Kren]

Thanks @NuShrike. From calculating everything it seems like there's no difference in pricing if I were to go with Swell.

I got quoted from Tesla for a Powerwall and install is ~$7500 so after ITC it's around $5250. Someone said that their two powerwalls cost $13000, so after ITC it's 9100.

If I do the calculations with Swell the correct way, it's going to be around 9100 also but the down side is that i'm stuck having to discharge. Basically all the rebate money went to Swell.

Really wish I could get on Tesla SPIG but doesn't look like there's any chance.

Please consider phoning or submitting online your dilemma to the SGIP workshop on Friday. The more voices the better. Basically, either way you are not getting the incentive you are entitled. Either you give your incentive to a third party installer through price gouging or you loose it by going with Tesla who can no longer submit an application for you.

 

[NuShrike]

Hello SGIP Participants,

Slides for tomorrow's workshop can be found here: https://www.selfgenca.com/documents/workshops/2016/q4

Thank you,
Self-Generation Incentive Program

re SGIP Equity Budget:

–If a PA does not confirm reservations in either the residential or non-residential Equity Budgets during any rolling three month period, while 5 or more general market energy storage projects secure confirmed reservations in the same time period, the incentive rate will increase by $0.05/Wh. In no event shall the incentive exceed $0.50/Wh.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

Real time updates from the SGIP teleconference:

Topic: New Developer Application
1. Step 3 to open in January 11, 2018 for CSE.
2. New developer application (Step 3 and beyond) need not have to check all the boxes/criteria. SGIP will review developer participation. Substantial participation is subjective and established by the developer. Submit new developer application by Dec 27.
3. Developer key eligibility is based on what is stated in the developer application. If inaccurate or misrepresented, repercussion include rejection of application and possible infractions.
4. Interconnection is required.

It may be a good idea to check if you are in a low-income area to see if your project fall underneath the SGIP Equity Budget. There are provisions allowed to increase $0.05 to a maximum of $0.50/kW if interest is too low.

 

[abasile]

It may be a good idea to check if you are in a low-income area to see if your project fall underneath the SGIP Equity Budget. There are provisions allowed to increase $0.05 to a maximum of $0.50/kW if interest is too low.

As per Auction Proceeds Disadvantaged Communities, it looks like we are in an AB 1550 Low Income Community (the boundaries are interesting and seemingly arbitrary in some cases, BTW). It doesn't appear that this would change our eligibility for rebate funding, though it might mean a larger SGIP rebate if I'm understanding correctly.

 

[wwhitney]

I think the Residential Equity funding may only be for low income housing. There's some info in the slide show sent out yesterday before the Workshop.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

Wayne, you may have touched on a point that wasn't 100% clear (to me) in the teleconference. The map may apply to disadvantaged/low income communities (i.e. multi-family building, etc., common facilities like a library). I do wonder with a single family home, if the system owner income is used as the principal qualifier for the Equity Budget. Something that cross my mind but forgot to ask via chat (apparently the chat is being saved and recorded).

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

One interesting thing mentioned in the on-line chat on WebEx is that Brian made leading statements that a battery oriented rate schedule is being developed by the PAs. It looks like there are (future) ways to incentivize battery installs even though financially the return-on-investment barely makes sense with the current available rate schedules by your respective PAs (utility). Not sure if these rate schedule are applicable to small-residential installation (non-commercial rate schedules) though.

 

[Kren]

I had to end my session when the workshop ended. Not sure if there were more chat questions afterwards. Here is a transcript I was able to save.

 

[abasile]

In general, Brian Bishop seemed sympathetic to homeowners who desire to participate in SGIP while avoiding installers charging thousands more than Tesla. Contacting the CPUC may be the best next step.

from Andrew Basile to Everyone:
Thank you, Brian, for the feedback. My suggestion is simply that the developer caps be changed so as to apply for only the first 30 days of each Step, thus continuing to give other developers a chance while enabling a greater participation rate. This is for the CPUC, I understand.
from Brian Bishop to Everyone:
Yes, some work-around like that could be feasible, or implementable. That is something to bring to the CPUC, indeed.

I had to end my session when the workshop ended. Not sure if there were more chat questions afterwards. Here is a transcript I was able to save.

Here are a few more chat messages that showed up after the conclusion of your transcript:

from Frank Meissner to Everyone:
New developer applications should be submitted by Dec. 27th in order to be ready for the Step 3 opening is this correct? If so, should applicants wanting to get into step 2 funds submit with the old Developers application?
from Brian Bishop to Everyone:
If they have not yet been approved for Steps 1 and 2, Developers will need to submit the updated developer application, even for Step 2
from Brian Bishop to Everyone:
Does that answer your question Frank?
from Frank Meissner to Everyone:
Yes, thank you.

 

[wwhitney]

Wayne, you may have touched on a point that wasn't 100% clear (to me) in the teleconference.

From the slideshow sent out yesterday (https://www.selfgenca.com/documents/workshops/2016/q4), page 17, with respect to the Equity program:

Residential Eligibility Criteria

Multi-Family: [ . . . ]

Single-Family: Single-family low-income residences that are sold at an affordable housing cost to a lower income household that is subject to a resale restriction or equity sharing agreement.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[juiced]

Hi, Johnny come lately here...

My (2) Powerwalls were commissioned today! Yeah.
Can anyone tell me if I can determine if my SGIP is on a list or what level (if any) I was approved for?
I've looked over some excel lists and can't find anything.
I jumped into the process June 29th but never got a clear idea of the rebate process. I did fill out an online SGIP form but not until Oct. 3rd, when it was sent to me by Tesla.
Since I already had solar I understand that I do not qualify for the tax credit, so, I'm hoping there is something to offset my cost.

Thanks in advance,
Craig

 

[juiced]

Hi, Johnny come lately here...

My (2) Powerwalls were commissioned today! Yeah.
Can anyone tell me if I can determine if my SGIP is on a list or what level (if any) I was approved for?
I've looked over some excel lists and can't find anything.
I jumped into the process June 29th but never got a clear idea of the rebate process. I did fill out an online SGIP form but not until Oct. 3rd, when it was sent to me by Tesla.
Since I already had solar I understand that I do not qualify for the tax credit, so, I'm hoping there is something to offset my cost.

Thanks in advance,
Craig

UPDATE... Order Confirmed June 5th... missed level 1 by a week!

 

[miimura]

Hi, Johnny come lately here...

My (2) Powerwalls were commissioned today! Yeah.
Can anyone tell me if I can determine if my SGIP is on a list or what level (if any) I was approved for?
I've looked over some excel lists and can't find anything.
I jumped into the process June 29th but never got a clear idea of the rebate process. I did fill out an online SGIP form but not until Oct. 3rd, when it was sent to me by Tesla.
Since I already had solar I understand that I do not qualify for the tax credit, so, I'm hoping there is something to offset my cost.

Thanks in advance,
Craig

You should be able to get the Investment Tax Credit (ITC) with existing solar as long as the system is provisioned to charge the battery from solar. Consult your tax advisor / preparer.

https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy17osti/67558.pdf

 

[juiced]

You should be able to get the Investment Tax Credit (ITC) with existing solar as long as the system is provisioned to charge the battery from solar. Consult your tax advisor / preparer.

https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy17osti/67558.pdf

Thanks so much!

 

[Kren]

Interesting comparison of the top three batteries at Home Battery Backup Power & Incentives | Pick My Solar
With better efficiency = higher amount of rebate. I will send this to CPUC when I submit a program modification with the argument of changing the Developer's Cap.

SONNEN ECO 10

Capacity – 10.0 kWh
Power – 7.0 kW
Max Incentive – $4,000 (SGIP Step 2)


LG CHEM RESU 10

Capacity – 9.8 kWh
Power – 5.0 kW
Max Incentive – $3,920 (SGIP Step 2)

TESLA POWERWALL 2

Capacity – 13.2 kWh
Power – 5.0 kW
Max Incentive – $4,640 (SGIP Step 2)

 

[jeep1979]

Interesting comparison of the top three batteries at Home Battery Backup Power & Incentives | Pick My Solar
With better efficiency = higher amount of rebate. I will send this to CPUC when I submit a program modification with the argument of changing the Developer's Cap.

SONNEN ECO 10

Capacity – 10.0 kWh
Power – 7.0 kW
Max Incentive – $4,000 (SGIP Step 2)


LG CHEM RESU 10

Capacity – 9.8 kWh
Power – 5.0 kW
Max Incentive – $3,920 (SGIP Step 2)

TESLA POWERWALL 2

Capacity – 13.2 kWh
Power – 5.0 kW
Max Incentive – $4,640 (SGIP Step 2)

Good information. A couple of other specs on the batteries for comparison

Cost Dimensions Weight Cost after Incentive

Sonnen Eco 10 $6,200 75 x 26 x 14 in 622 lbs $2,200
LG Chem Resu 10 $6,300 8.94 × 17.8 × 19.2 in 214 lbs $2,380
Powerwall 2 $5,500 45.3 x 29.7 x 6.1 276 lbs $ 860

 

[Kren]

Good information. A couple of other specs on the batteries for comparison

Cost Dimensions Weight Cost after Incentive

Sonnen Eco 10 $6,200 75 x 26 x 14 in 622 lbs $2,200
LG Chem Resu 10 $6,300 8.94 × 17.8 × 19.2 in 214 lbs $2,380
Powerwall 2 $5,500 45.3 x 29.7 x 6.1 276 lbs $ 860

One other thing to consider I suppose would be installation costs. Otherwise, there is no competition for the Powerwall
(which we all know ).

 

[NuShrike]

One other thing to consider I suppose would be installation costs. Otherwise, there is no competition for the Powerwall
(which we all know ).

There's an opportunity cost. One is more likely to get any of the other batteries installed before a PW2.
I've been pondering giving up and going toward a Sonnen Eco 14 +/- . Your rebate numbers help.

It's not cheap, but it's definitely faster to install (and get into the SGIP rebate). They also got optimized TOU software ready to go, and multi-generations polished.

 

[Kren]

There's an opportunity cost. One is more likely to get any of the other batteries installed before a PW2.
I've been pondering giving up and going toward a Sonnen Eco 14 +/- . Your rebate numbers help.

It's not cheap, but it's definitely faster to install (and get into the SGIP rebate). They also got optimized TOU software ready to go, and multi-generations polished.

Yes, Sonnen was our first choice. Having lived in Germany for 13 years we felt this German product was a first class quality product. I believe it was the case that you could use their software over your cell phone to manipulate your battery. For example if you are in Paris and you heard that your Sonnen backed-up house in California had a level 9 earthquake, you can take things, for example your living room, EV, offline from your cell phone saving your battery back-up for the more important things. I asked my Tesla rep if this was possible with the powerwall and of course he thought I was crazy. But the Sonnen was cost prohibitive at the time. Since this is a Tesla forum, and I am an American, and I support American technological superiority, I will say on the record that Tesla is a much better battery for the money