Problem with the front camber after drop

[Dolemite]

Whatever play there is to adjust front camber on this car isn’t enough to “correct” that much of a negative. But it’s okay because IMO that’s a reasonable amount for aggressive street driving.

 

[MountainPass]

I'd bet that a huge difference in front camber like that is caused by a miscalibrated alignment machine or user error.

 

[TonyUsa]

I'd bet that a huge difference in front camber like that is caused by a miscalibrated alignment machine or user error.

Wow! Below are the print out 4 months 2,000 miles apart.
The first print out was about 1 week after I lowered the car with H&R spring.
The second print was 4 months, 2,000 miles apart from the first one.
Are those changed of degree normal after springs settled?

 

[dfwatt]

You definitely DO NOT need to buy aftermarket toe links to get the rear closer to zero toe. There's tons of toe adjustment in the factory suspension for both front and rear toe.

The front camber is adjusted by removing the trunk lining and then loosening the bolts holding the top shock mount to the car and sliding it until the camber is correct. Your shop probably doesn't know that, or even more likely, they didn't feel like removing the trunk liner (which is easy and only about 7 or 8 fasteners).

The rear camber can also be adjusted slightly by adjusting the suspension links.

It's all in the shop manual. The hard part is getting these guys to do their job because they have figured out that, for the most part, they make the same money whether they do a simple "toe and go" on the front or spend the time to adjust everything correctly. They also know how to trick the alignment machine to produce numbers that look like they adjusted everything correctly.

For that reason, I do my own alignments now with accurate measurement tools I purchased.

I believe that what you said here is potentially misleading. Moving the front Tower strut attachment bolts on the front strut Towers does not allow you to adjust front camber more than maybe one or at most two tenths of a degree. There simply is not that kind of play in the attachment point for the strut assembly. You could of course create your own sliding mechanism, or drill an additional three holes, but I wouldn't recommend that as that might weaken the front Tower and lead to a critical failure under load.

Currently the only way to adjust front camber is by getting an aftermarket front upper control arm such as the one made by Mountain Pass. Most folks will get to ~1° negative from lowering the car an inch or so. That's great for Street but it's not enough for track and the only way you're going to get to the requisite minimum of something like 2.5 degrees negative is with one of those aftermarket front upper control arm parts. The poster who shows more than one degree differential front negative camber with 1.3 negative camber on one side and barely negative on the other probably has either a bent suspension or an improperly installed suspension at the factory. That is not going to be correctable with the approach you have suggested.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I believe that what you said here is potentially misleading. Moving the front Tower strut attachment bolts on the front strut Towers does not allow you to adjust front camber more than maybe one or at most two tenths of a degree. There simply is not that kind of play in the attachment point for the strut assembly. You could of course create your own sliding mechanism, or drill an additional three holes, but I wouldn't recommend that as that might weaken the front Tower and lead to a critical failure under load.

Currently the only way to adjust front camber is by getting an aftermarket front upper control arm such as the one made by Mountain Pass. Most folks will get to ~1° negative from lowering the car an inch or so. That's great for Street but it's not enough for track and the only way you're going to get to the requisite minimum of something like 2.5 degrees negative is with one of those aftermarket front upper control arm parts. The poster who shows more than one degree differential front negative camber with 1.3 negative camber on one side and barely negative on the other probably has either a bent suspension or an improperly installed suspension at the factory. That is not going to be correctable with the approach you have suggested.

Well, tell that to the people at Tesla that make their shop manuals, because what I said is what they put in their official shop manual for adjusting front camber/caster. Sure, it's not enough camber adjustment to make up for a severe drop, but you're being misleading by saying I'm being misleading. The spec has a good range, so that margin of factory adjustment could get you back into spec after certain drops.

 

[dfwatt]

Well, tell that to the people at Tesla that make their shop manuals, because what I said is what they put in their official shop manual for adjusting front camber/caster. Sure, it's not enough camber adjustment to make up for a severe drop, but you're being misleading by saying I'm being misleading. The spec has a good range, so that margin of factory adjustment could get you back into spec after certain drops.

Well I'm not sure what your source of information on that is but Tesla has told me that they do not recommend anybody trying to adjust camber that way. Do you have a source other than hearing it on the internet? Point of fact, people who have tried this report that the most they can get as a tenth of a degree difference. So either way whether this is actually been recommended by Tesla or whether you're simply repeating a falsehood that somebody else has started, it is not a viable way to make up a half a degree let alone a degree of misalignment. As for Tesla allowing a wide range of adjustment in relationship to camber on the front, this is simply to cover their asses because they have not made this adjustable and therefore they have to allow for the normal variation that you would expect in mounting suspension components with a normal range of variation on frames where the tolerances for all the components are not super precise.

 

[EmOne]

Well I'm not sure what your source of information on that is but Tesla has told me that they do not recommend anybody trying to adjust camber that way. Do you have a source other than hearing it on the internet? Point of fact, people who have tried this report that the most they can get as a tenth of a degree difference. So either way whether this is actually been recommended by Tesla or whether you're simply repeating a falsehood that somebody else has started, it is not a viable way to make up a half a degree let alone a degree of misalignment. As for Tesla allowing a wide range of adjustment in relationship to camber on the front, this is simply to cover their asses because they have not made this adjustable and therefore they have to allow for the normal variation that you would expect in mounting suspension components with a normal range of variation on frames where the tolerances for all the components are not super precise.

I feel better now for having bought all of MPP's suspension parts to get better shocks, slightly lowered body and precise alignment; now if only I could find a shop in Chicago that I can trust to do the alignment!! Open to suggestions.

 

[dfwatt]

Well, tell that to the people at Tesla that make their shop manuals, because what I said is what they put in their official shop manual for adjusting front camber/caster. Sure, it's not enough camber adjustment to make up for a severe drop, but you're being misleading by saying I'm being misleading. The spec has a good range, so that margin of factory adjustment could get you back into spec after certain drops.

Please confirm a link to said shop manual. In other words you need to provide evidence for your claim. Even if it's true, it's still misinformation regrettably promulgated by Tesla in this case. And once again a tenth of a degree at most two tenths of a degree of adjustment range is not enough to get most cars into spec.

 

[Dolemite]

I'd bet that a huge difference in front camber like that is caused by a miscalibrated alignment machine or user error.

It could also be something shitty going on w/ the subframe - SC guys have told me that some cars require shifting the subframes around to get them back into spec. Not complicated but definitely tedious.

Please confirm a link to said shop manual. In other words you need to provide evidence for your claim. Even if it's true, it's still misinformation regrettably promulgated by Tesla in this case. And once again a tenth of a degree at most two tenths of a degree of adjustment range is not enough to get most cars into spec.

I’d post it if this place wasn’t teeming with sanctimonious heroes who are perfectly happy getting fleeced by Tesla.

Yes the factory service manual states that you can adjust front camber by moving the FUCA mounts around. But it’s barely anything. Local alignment shop told me it’s “not even worth mentioning.” Same thing goes for other miscellaneous suspension components - it basically amounts to the play between miscellaneous components and fasteners. For real adjustment beyond toe, we have to turn to the aftermarket.

 

[dfwatt]

It could also be something shitty going on w/ the subframe - SC guys have told me that some cars require shifting the subframes around to get them back into spec. Not complicated but definitely tedious.


I’d post it if this place wasn’t teeming with sanctimonious heroes who are perfectly happy getting fleeced by Tesla.

Yes the factory service manual states that you can adjust front camber by moving the FUCA mounts around. But it’s barely anything. Local alignment shop told me it’s “not even worth mentioning.” Same thing goes for other miscellaneous suspension components - it basically amounts to the play between miscellaneous components and fasteners. For real adjustment beyond toe, we have to turn to the aftermarket.

Agreed. The notion that you can adjust camber that way is a joke.