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Public Medium post about unionizing..

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by ohmman, Feb 9, 2017.

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  1. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    Time for Tesla to Listen

    I'd be interested in hearing both sides of the story, but if he is representing it fairly, it doesn't reflect well on Tesla's factory environment. My visit there three years ago looked like a factory that took care of their workers, but I haven't been back, and I realize there are areas that the tour doesn't show.
     
  2. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    Yes, I'd like to hear both sides.

    One thing I can think of - It would be easy for the factory folks to believe they should benefit from the stock price.
     
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  3. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    I currently work with a mechanic who used to work at SpaceX. He liked the job and the pay was good, but he was often working 16 - 18 hour days plus weekends. He would sometimes sleep in his car in the parking lot instead of making the commute back home each night.

    In the end, he left and came to work for us (we are a union shop) because the long hours and stressful working conditions were too much. Great gain for us, since he is one of our best aircraft mechanics.

    I know that SpaceX isnt Tesla, but I imagine the corporate culture is similar, so I would not be surprised if the complaints are true.


    I am going on a factory tour in May. I will be curious to see their ergonomics setups after reading this complaint.
     
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  4. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    It sounds to me like he makes his position known in a fair and reasonable manner. I would like to read Tesla's response. It seems to me that it must be "we are committed to making changes" but perhaps they have a defence to these serious allegations.
     
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  5. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    If the cost of living is too high around a business, guess what the problem is?

    Intel is putting a $7 billion factory in Arizona, not California. I wonder why? Because it's a "dry heat"? Or something else?
     
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  6. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

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    Supply and demand.
     
  7. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Yes. You supply California with taxes, and they demand more. But many of my customers have moved to Texas, Nevada, Arizona or the South over the last 2 decades.
     
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  8. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    And it gets more interesting...

    New effort to unionize Tesla’s workforce launches amid production expansion for Model 3

    http://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-responds-to-claims-of-low-pay-injuries-and-a-1792190512

    Musk even went on the offensive against Moran, attempting to discredit his assertions about Tesla. “Our understanding is that this guy was paid by the UAW to join Tesla and agitate for a union. He doesn’t really work for us, he works for the UAW,” Musk wrote. He added in a separate response, “Frankly, I find this attack to be morally outrageous. Tesla is the last car company left in California, because costs are so high. The UAW killed NUMMI and abandoned the workers at our Fremont plant in 2010. They have no leg to stand on.”
     
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  9. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    In this case, the SF Bay Area economy is so strong that it has driven housing prices way up in the past two decades. There is no vacant land left to build on, so more high density multi-unit dwellings are being built but they are still very pricey.

    Despite your ideological blinders, not everything is about a rapacious government.
     
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  10. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    The UAW not only slaughtered the California automotive industry, they trashed the aerospace industry.

    The UAW will injure Tesla Motors. I was UAW and IAM in previous lives, and I had a front row seat to our execution.

    Here's how the UAW would work. Once they organize, the national leaders are bound to Detroit. They will use your dues to lobby against your EV jobs. Guaranteed.

    At Rockwell International and McDonnell Douglas, the UAW (and IAM at a point) lobbied to elect politicians who wanted our programs cancelled, with our dues. They even sent us "ballots" to tell us to vote against our own jobs.
     
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  11. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    I am not surprised about worker shortage condition.

    It's reflected elsewhere as well: in services from phone calls to long wait for services...

    It's fun to work real hard and have very little time for family and social life when you are young, but after a while, there's more life than just work exclusively.

    I am not surprised that a company would restrict worker's freedom in order to protect the brand's reputation with "a confidentiality policy that threatens consequences if we exercise our right to speak out about wages and working conditions."

    In an ideal world, workers should be able to speak up if there's something wrong in an assembly line which Japanese workers do very well without penalty. Not too well for US automobile assembly line.

    Not every worker can speak up or have connections to California State Assembly members.

    As Tesla grows, it is reasonable that workers should be represented by a union.

    Good car companies in Germany, Japan are unionized, so should Tesla.
     
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  12. dmode

    dmode Member

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    I am really suspicious about this post. Also, if factory folks start to unionize they are playing with fire. Companies are already moving manufacturing jobs en masse to Mexico. And once Tesla becomes more global, it would be hard for them to stay competitive with US manufacturing. I am not sure if the poster understands this.
     
  13. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    I certainly hope it's not a race to the bottom.
     
  14. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Not in the USA they are not. When the UAW tried to unionize Japanese Auto Factories in the US, the workers voted them down.

    The UAW is not like Japanese or German unions.
     
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  15. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    This is quite simple. No. Do you see what the UAW did to the American auto industry???

    Unions are not the answer, they have become nothing more than shelters for those who don't really want to work but believe they are entitled to compensation and benefits at the level of those who do. Call that controversial if you want, some of you may be offended by it, but in my lifetime I have never seen a union do right by it's members.

    Jeff
     
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  16. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

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    This is by and large good. It makes more room for the millionaire tech folks who pay the higher tax rates so the rest of us poor folk can still have a reasonable standard of living. The 5,273,170 population increase since 2000 seems at odds with your anecdotal evidence of your "customers" deserting California:

    U.S. Population by State, 1790 to 2015

    I'm pretty much anti-union. I had a horrible experience with the only union I was ever a member of (long ago). The only thing that I learned was that the union exists to further its own agenda. They were purporting to be looking out for me, and nothing could have been further from the truth. I was mercilessly thrown under the bus by the organization purporting to be on my side. Very valuable takeaway was that I then realized that there is only one person/entity that is going to be looking out for RubberToe. Spolier Alert: It's not the union!

    Despite manufacturing vehicles, I see Tesla more as a tech company than a car company.

    RT
     
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  17. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Something just dawned on me... I bet Elon is even more aggressive in pushing automation and robots, the machine that builds the machine concept... If the workers are going to behave like this, replace them with robots. They never complain, don't take breaks, and can't unionize...

    Jeff
     
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  18. dmode

    dmode Member

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  19. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    Right, they shouldn't be able to speak their mind. If they do, they should never work again and be replaced by a robot. Got it.
     
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  20. SpiceWare

    SpiceWare Member

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    I've read many times on how California cities have prevented enough housing from being built. So while in this case it may not be rapacious, it's still on the government.

    Why By-Right Affordable Housing in California is the Right Thing to do | Terner Center
     

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