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question re: permitting home stretch

astrorob

stealth performance M3
Aug 27, 2014
397
73
oakland, ca
Hi all,

my project has taken forever and a day due to redesigns, MPU and covid, but i'm in the home stretch. as of yesterday, both the fire inspection and the city building inspection have passed and tesla says they are in the process of "registering" my PWs with PGE. maybe this can't be done until the inspections pass but i signed the PGE paperwork more than a year ago so i had expected that this was already done.

tesla tried to bill me immediately after the powerwalls were installed but i told them that since the inspections had not passed that i couldn't/wouldn't pay. i guess my question now is, do i need to hold out for PGE's approval before paying? or is the PGE thing a formality? tesla has not yet tried to bill me again but i wanted to be ready to push back in case they do.

thanks
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,070
5,650
Los Altos, CA
I have heard that in solar-only installations, Tesla asks for payment after inspections pass but will not process the utility PTO paperwork until the customer pays. I don't know the situation with Powerwall-only installations. My Powerwalls were installed by a third party.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
7,659
8,437
Riverside Co. CA
I have heard that in solar-only installations, Tesla asks for payment after inspections pass but will not process the utility PTO paperwork until the customer pays. I don't know the situation with Powerwall-only installations. My Powerwalls were installed by a third party.

For my Powerwall only install, (Jan 2020) tesla informed me they would not submit for PTO until payment was complete. I waited until after the local inspections (city in my case) were done and I got a verbal pass from the inspector, then I paid tesla.

OP you will likely have to pay before PTO is submitted, unless tesla has changed stance on this.
 

Odobo

Member
Feb 16, 2021
28
16
USA
They need to get the permit, then submit the PTO to PGE. PGE then will need to come out and make sure you have a smart meter (at least that what they did in my case) before they can turn on your system.

So yea from their point of view, they completed the installation.
 

astrorob

stealth performance M3
Aug 27, 2014
397
73
oakland, ca
i already have a pre-existing solar plant and solar PTO for years, and a smart meter came with the solar install. so that's covered.

the consensus here is that the solar PTO is good enough to operate the powerwall and tesla told me that PGE does not need to come out for this type of install.

so although tesla doesn't have leverage over me on the PTO front (but of course could disable the system remotely) then it doesn't do them much good to withhold the PTO paperwork until i pay. but if that's the way they do it that's fine, i will pay them.

not sure whatever link they sent me is still good so perhaps i'll contact my advisor.
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
979
587
East Bay NorCal
I think your difficulty could come from PG&E putting you onto NEM2-MT or NEM2-PS.

Since you're adding equipment, I don't think you'd be grandfathered in and could be required to have the extra fees and paperwork to contend with. And of course the fun requirement to put PG&E on your homeowners insurance.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
7,659
8,437
Riverside Co. CA
I think your difficulty could come from PG&E putting you onto NEM2-MT or NEM2-PS.

Since you're adding equipment, I don't think you'd be grandfathered in and could be required to have the extra fees and paperwork to contend with. And of course the fun requirement to put PG&E on your homeowners insurance.

Adding powerwalls to existing solar does not change any existing NEM agreements at all. I am still on NEM 1 for example, even though I added my powerwalls in Jan of 2020, when NEM 1 stopped being available in SCE territory sometime in 2016 I believe.

This OP wont have to change anything with their NEM agreement, and the utility usually doesnt need to come out for powerwalls (storage) added to "previously PTO granted" solar.

OP once you pass your city inspection, many of us (including me) who added powerwalls onto existing, permitted, "PTO'ed" PV systems simply continue to use the powerwalls. I still had to pay before tesla would submit for PTO for the powerwalls, and I was eager to pay for it and have that done (on my credit card) once the city inspection was passed.

I used the system from when the city inspection was passed until I received actual PTO. To reiterate, this was powerwalls added onto already existing, already PTO'ed solar.
 

astrorob

stealth performance M3
Aug 27, 2014
397
73
oakland, ca
So the winning formula to not getting hit by NEM2-MT is to install the solar first, then Powerwalls later?

in my case NEM2 did not even exist when i installed solar.

there was a brief window there where we thought that PGE would re-grandfather EV-A subscribers for 5 more years if one switched to NEM2 as part of a powerwall install. there were some PGE solar reps who indicated this would be the case but as it ran up the chain of command at PGE the word came down that no, there would not be any re-grandfathering. to that end i had asked tesla to prepare NEM-2 interconnect paperwork for me but luckily i did not sign it before it was discovered there would be no benefit. so i had to go back to tesla and ask them to re-do the paperwork under NEM-1. this is what's signed and in my account now.

anyway all i have is an automated text message from tesla which basically said "good news, inspections have passed and we are now preparing to register your powerwall with PGE." no one has yet asked me to pay. the purpose of my question was to try to figure out if i should hold off paying tesla until the PGE paperwork is done in case something goes wrong but in fact it sounds like they won't do anything with PGE until i pay.
 

Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,828
2,101
Silicon Valley, CA
I had NEM2 with my 2-3 year old PV system PV before my pending Powerwall installation. I needed to sign a new NEM2-MT agreement to get PGE approval to move forward.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
7,659
8,437
Riverside Co. CA
I had NEM2 with my 2-3 year old PV system PV before my pending Powerwall installation. I needed to sign a new NEM2-MT agreement to get PGE approval to move forward.

You sure they didnt just put that in front of you? That would be either a change since 2020, or a fairly large difference between PGE and SCE. As a reference, i am assuming you are not going through tesla (because why would you? lol), but in late december 2019 (with my powerwall install happening in early january 2020) tesla electronically sent me a NEM 2 agreement to sign.

I told them "I am grandfathered into NEM1 and have no intention to change", and my rep said "oh sorry my bad" (basically) and then sent me the correct NEM 1 agreement for people who had existing NEM1 PTO.
 

Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,828
2,101
Silicon Valley, CA
You sure they didnt just put that in front of you? That would be either a change since 2020, or a fairly large difference between PGE and SCE. As a reference, i am assuming you are not going through tesla (because why would you? lol), but in late december 2019 (with my powerwall install happening in early january 2020) tesla electronically sent me a NEM 2 agreement to sign.

I told them "I am grandfathered into NEM1 and have no intention to change", and my rep said "oh sorry my bad" (basically) and then sent me the correct NEM 1 agreement for people who had existing NEM1 PTO.

I will check on this. This could be a difference between NEM1 and NEM2 as well.
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
979
587
East Bay NorCal
I'm waiting for NEM3 to come out... at which time PG&E is probably going to say they reserve the right to change any tariff or TOU rate at will since FU California.
 

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