Questions from guy considering a purchase

[hinckley]

First, I'd like to think that we can all express respectful opinions on this board without others trying to muzzle our thoughts. We should be able to disagree without without being subject to Trump-like derision.

I too have fallen in love with the Model S. I've been driving BMWs for 30 years and Porsches for 15 years, and I'm blown away by this car's power and handling. It's simply an amazing vehicle. But I too worry that it is not quite ready for (post-early adopter) prime time. After all, Tesla is marketing itself as more of a modern technology company than a traditional car company. And while some of their gee-wiz tech is very cool, they're still missing a lot of basic, traditional car company tech. Most disconcerting, they don't seem that interested in getting some of that basic stuff right. I presume it just doesn't get enough bang-for-the buck publicity so the company's investing elsewhere.

I've been in the high-tech start-up world for almost all of my career. I know that there's always something new around the corner, and I'm sold on this car now. But I'm still sitting on my hands until some of the basic tech is cleaned-up. My fingers are crossed for the next major UI software release.

 

[Boatguy]

I too have fallen in love with the Model S. I've been driving BMWs for 30 years and Porsches for 15 years, and I'm blown away by this car's power and handling. It's simply an amazing vehicle. But I too worry that it is not quite ready for (post-early adopter) prime time.

I've been in the high-tech start-up world for almost all of my career. I know that there's always something new around the corner, and I'm sold on this car now. But I'm still sitting on my hands until some of the basic tech is cleaned-up. My fingers are crossed for the next major UI software release.

I also spent all of my career in technology and they do need to finish the basics.

Like many others, I sent my comments to feedback@... and got a "thank you for sharing" reply.

Right now Tesla is straight out of "Crossing the Chasm". The S and X owners are all still early adopters. There will also be some Model 3 owners who are early adopters, but couldn't afford the S or X.

Model 3 is going to be measured against the Bolt and to a lesser degree the upgraded range 2017 Leaf and i3 (~ 125mi). Model 3 reviews will influence whether they break out and start to take business from Toyota/Ford/GM/Honda/Nissan ICE sales, that's the mainstream (VW - RIP). The Bolt has CarPlay and Android Auto so if there are any infotainment issues they will be deflected to Apple and Google, GM won't take the heat.

Tesla is going to need to step up sooner rather than later. Do they want to read reviews about Siri integration on the BOLT and the entire lack of iPhone integration on the Tesla? Do they really want to be seen as "responding" to Chevrolet?

 

[mikeash]

While Tesla may be "responding" to Chevy for infotainment stuff, Chevy will simultaneously be "responding" (or, really, not responding) to Tesla on things like a viable fast charging network for long distance travel. Chevy gets the short end of that stick, by far.

I do agree that Tesla should step up their game here. Elon did say that they will focus on something like CarPlay and Android Auto in the future. Of course, Tesla tends to say stuff like this and then not do it, so I'm not going to call it a done deal until I actually see it, but they do seem to at least want to push things further.

 

[hinckley]

I, and most people in my world, have huge respect for Musk. We consider him to be a Steve Jobs-like CEO, building a movement or a revolution rather than building a company. That's a rare event and the normal rules don't always apply. But Jobs and Apple had some pretty rocky years as well, and as Tesla approaches that Chasm with the Model 3, things will change - a lot. As Apple found out, you can't address mass market appeal without addressing basic mass market demands. Many companies never made it across, but I wouldn't bet against Musk in the long-term.

 

[Super_Popular]

The Model 3 will not be out for 1.5 years or more, Tesla has plenty of time to get ready for the mass market if it's a major hit.

 

[BertL]

Rather than go off-topic or recreate the wheel here, good discussion on prioritization started a while back and continues in Tesla Priorities: Refine Autopilot or Fix Everything Else?

 

[Boatguy]

Bert makes a good point, I've hijacked my own thread! Better to move this to the Tesla Priorities thread he cites above and perhaps other comments to a thread in the Model 3 forum.

 

[tomas]

I also spent all of my career in technology and they do need to finish the basics.

Like many others, I sent my comments to feedback@... and got a "thank you for sharing" reply.

Right now Tesla is straight out of "Crossing the Chasm". The S and X owners are all still early adopters. There will also be some Model 3 owners who are early adopters, but couldn't afford the S or X.

Model 3 is going to be measured against the Bolt and to a lesser degree the upgraded range 2017 Leaf and i3 (~ 125mi). Model 3 reviews will influence whether they break out and start to take business from Toyota/Ford/GM/Honda/Nissan ICE sales, that's the mainstream (VW - RIP). The Bolt has CarPlay and Android Auto so if there are any infotainment issues they will be deflected to Apple and Google, GM won't take the heat.

Tesla is going to need to step up sooner rather than later. Do they want to read reviews about Siri integration on the BOLT and the entire lack of iPhone integration on the Tesla? Do they really want to be seen as "responding" to Chevrolet?

You asked questions at beginning of thread, and I'm beginning to feel they were rhetorical. Do what you want. These minor issues are not deal killers for most members here who are owners. If they are for you, don't buy the car. But don't lecture us on the market. The model s has been creaming every other car in category. That's how the market talks.

 

[Archduke]

I appreciate your passionate post, but I've been driving a BMW i3 BEV for 18 months. I'm well versed in the electric driving experience.

I missed the 2014 BMW i3 in your list of vehicles. Apologies for assuming you were unfamiliar with the experience of driving electric.

 

[Boatguy]

I missed the 2014 BMW i3 in your list of vehicles. Apologies for assuming you were unfamiliar with the experience of driving electric.

No worries!

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

A lot of us here are, and have been in the tech business for a long time - which obviously creates the draw to Tesla. I have been a multi-year lurker/Tesla follower and finally jumped in with a CPO October of '15 and have since put about 6,500 miles on the car.

I think your enjoyment of the car will really come down to your personality more than anything else. For me, the car is as vexing as it is exciting. One moment I love the acceleration and all things regen and the next I wonder about tire wheel noise (its louder than my Land Cruiser - and I'm on the quieter 19s) and why they have not mitigated it. I believe BertL and Artsci have spent time lessening that issue. I also find the nav system no better than my Land Cruisers, which is burned in - not web enabled. So sometimes I sit on the freeway looking at all the available tech in the car and wonder why it can't use Waze and help me determine if its better to be in the carpool for 4 additional miles vs slogging it some other way.

That's maybe the only thing that gets me. I sit so knowingly close to having a nearly perfect driving experience, and it is all software related. So, yes, that is for the other thread, so just make sure your personality can cope to sitting so close to perfection, because it will taught you.

What do I do? I ignore that and fetch the Tesla out of the garage (which I have to unlock, open manually, close and lock) just to go to the store a mile and half away, when I could have just grabbed the Cruiser that is parked outside ready to go. Why? Because I can live with being taunted a little bit longer, and I don't need Nav to get to the store, or most places actually.

 

[hinckley]

I think your enjoyment of the car will really come down to your personality more than anything else. For me, the car is as vexing as it is exciting.

Camera-Cruiser, I loved your post. You exactly hit upon my reason for sitting on my hands, waiting until the "vexing" issues will be few enough to be overwhelmed by the excitement of the Model S. And that may be now, I know. So to my question . . . other than the nav issues (which I can live with), what else "bugs" you about the car, specifically the UI? And for other members - I'm asking for Camera-Cruiser's opinions. Please don't interpret them as complaints. Thanks to all.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Uh, thanks I think. Well, like I said, it's about personality. There is what excites you. Is it the exterior style of the S? Then check. Do you like an internet connected car, then check. Do you like incredible acceleration, then check. Handling, then check. Great service experience (for me), then check. Saving the planet, well, it's a start. Plus, many other positives that I'm sure you know about.

Then the vexing, Internet connection and web browser slow. Navigation/maps don't live up to what's available on phones, The road noise is louder than many other cars for half the price. Using the bluetooth car integrated phone is problematic because of road noise, at least for me. The above two being most irksome to me. Three service visits in four months (air bag, tire pressure sensor, loose rear hatch), not good. Plus other negatives, that I'm sure you've read about too.

But, all this is personal. I still enjoy seeing the car every time I open the garage, or walk up to it wherever I parked, mashing the accelerator always brings a smile.

So do what works for you. You'll still be you, either with or without a Tesla. It's all good.

Let's hope the 31st bring more surprises than we already know about. I'd pay for a noise kit, because it's not a defect, and the same thing for a faster CPU. At the end of the day, I bought 3 year old car. At some point, that is what it is.

I still hit Tesla's site and run configurations over and over hoping the dollar amount will be lower. So barring any serious competition, I still have an itch to scratch by getting another Tesla.

 

[davidc18]

Vexing is a great word to describe owning an MS. Great write up, thanks.

 

[tstafford]

For me it's simple - the whole experience is more than the sum of all the parts. While there are some annoyances about the car, the awesome stuff overshadows them and makes for the best car ownership experience I have ever had.

 

[mikeash]

Vexing is a great word to describe owning an MS. Great write up, thanks.

Man, I feel like my internet must have gotten hit with some tachyons and is now showing me posts from a parallel universe. Owning a Model S is "vexing"? How....

Yes, there are some problems. The software has some stupid points. Weird Bluetooth, sometimes needs reboots, the whole system slows down if you have too many entries in your navigation history, the whole navigation system is kind of weak (but still good enough for 99% of my use, anyway). Things break more often than on a Toyota. Service Centers are sometimes backed up.

But how often does this impact your daily driving? Every time I drive this car (except for the time my pano roof jammed and I had to take it in to be fixed) I think, damn, this is awesome. When I wake up to see a software update notification on my phone, it's like being a kid on Christmas again as I go try out all the cool new stuff. Autopilot has made driving on busy and jammed-up DC-area highways a million times nicer. Every time I encounter some souped up sports car blatting its muffler all over the highway I love how my seven-seater family hauler can match all the go with none of the noise.

Occasional problems? Sure. Vexing? I can't even.

 

[Boatguy]

My expectations have been set and I've placed an order. It's OK with me if we close out this thread...

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Man, I feel like my internet must have gotten hit with some tachyons and is now showing me posts from a parallel universe. Owning a Model S is "vexing"? How....

Occasional problems? Sure. Vexing? I can't even.

Well, to me vexing is to be irritated over a small annoyance. So, the problem is me, which is why I said the Tesla (and it can be any car in the world) needs to match or suit your personality. Otherwise you might be vexed, or just a bit annoyed over something small.

I saw that Boatguy had experience with nice cars, and questioned items that have been know about since the car first shipped. Nothing more.

Remember I still want a P90D, 100 or whatever may come. Vexed or not!

Seeing that it looks like your avatar depicts you in something like an Extra 300 aircraft, you might find something vexing about it, but at the end of the day, nothing else does what it does. So your vexed, but happy. That's me.

Everything is good here.

 

[mikeash]

To me, describing the entire ownership experience as vexing implies this stuff is constant pain. Like, maybe the positives outweigh the negatives, but the negatives are an ever-present source of frustration. If the car was in the shop every month, that would be vexing. If it occasionally blasted static in my ear, or it leaked on me every time it rained, or I've ended up on a first-name basis with the local tow truck driver, that would be vexing. But at least to me, these problems don't even show up 99% of the time. I get in the car and drive, and everything works, and it's great.

The aircraft in my profile picture is a sailplane, an ASW-20. (Not expecting you to figure that out from such a limited image, of course!) I'd say it's similar. Sometimes something goes wrong, but for the most part it just works. Thankfully, sailplanes don't have a whole lot that can cause trouble.

Anyway, maybe this is just a matter of perspective or wording. To me, that implied a lot more trouble than there really is. If that's not how others see it, then carry on!

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Cool. Yes. Sailplanes are free from the noise box up front, and winds noise is actually informative. I'd like to get my rating someday.

All good here.

Hope to hear how boatguy does with his delivery.