Really? Is no one talking about the Chevy Bolt?

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Other than the fact I can't see out of it (I'm 6'4" tall), The Volt is a fine vehicle. Its fatal flaws, however are:
1) trying to put 2 power trains into a car makes the cost of a good PHEV like the Volt high and folks aren't willing to pay the necessary price for a manufacturers to make a profit.
2) GM made the Volt's transmission system way too complex, making 1) even worse.

Given that the system block diagram of a PHEV nicely matches the org chart of an ICE company, it is popular in the board room; it doesn't leave any division out. That's why Tesla has been successful; they didn't have to satisfy an existing (but obsolete) corporate power structure.

On (2) they just added some clutches and made the motor the focus.
Electronically-controlled clutches aren't really a big deal. It's not something people complain about with their automatic transmissions.
In Gen 2 they switched the focus to engine-first so the transmission was better suited for use in other hybrids and PHEVs.

The Gen 4 Prius added a clutch to allow higher all-electric speed and more motor power.

The main reason GM stopped making the Volt was that they could achieve ZEV compliance easily with just the Bolt, but they couldn't with just the Volt.
Botl 4 ZEV credits v Volt 1.3 TZEV credits, with TZEV only being allowed as a diminishing share of the credits.
Had they lobbied CARB successfully to make the Volt qualify under BEVx, they might have at least kept it going a few more years. The changes on the 2019 made it more desirable, especially in cold climates: 7.2kW charger on the Premier (or optionally on the LT), engine off down to -13F.

The other reason was that it was a hatchback in a market going crossover.

We still have our 2013 and plan to keep it a couple of years to see how charging infrastructure improves, but man, I wish I'd have picked up a 2019 after cancellation when I had the chance. LT with heated seats for 25.5k or maybe less with negotiation.

 

[Earl]

On (2) they just added some clutches

And a bunch of brakes, several electric motors/generators, and a lot of gears.
The only good thing about that rube-goldberg monstrosity is that it kept the powertrain (transmissions) division employed for another few years.
It was optimized to drive on gasoline (what I assume you mean by 'focus to engine-first') to keep the power plant (IC Engine) division employed a little longer (let a few executives retire wealthy).
A simple serial hybrid that focused on the battery and electric motor with the ICE as a range extender would have been a lot cheaper.
GM just couldn't handle the idea of the ICE not being primary. Ironic for the company who killed the steam train locomotive by introducing serial hybrid Diesel-Electric locomotives.

The other reason was that it was a hatchback in a market going crossover.

Everyone else has made crossovers on top of their sedan chassis. Why couldn't GM?
We still have our 2015 Volt but it is on the way out. Superchargers and long BEV range have made it pretty much obsolete.

 

[Konicom04]

On (2) they just added some clutches and made the motor the focus.
Electronically-controlled clutches aren't really a big deal. It's not something people complain about with their automatic transmissions.
In Gen 2 they switched the focus to engine-first so the transmission was better suited for use in other hybrids and PHEVs.

The Gen 4 Prius added a clutch to allow higher all-electric speed and more motor power.

The main reason GM stopped making the Volt was that they could achieve ZEV compliance easily with just the Bolt, but they couldn't with just the Volt.
Botl 4 ZEV credits v Volt 1.3 TZEV credits, with TZEV only being allowed as a diminishing share of the credits.
Had they lobbied CARB successfully to make the Volt qualify under BEVx, they might have at least kept it going a few more years. The changes on the 2019 made it more desirable, especially in cold climates: 7.2kW charger on the Premier (or optionally on the LT), engine off down to -13F.

The other reason was that it was a hatchback in a market going crossover.

We still have our 2013 and plan to keep it a couple of years to see how charging infrastructure improves, but man, I wish I'd have picked up a 2019 after cancellation when I had the chance. LT with heated seats for 25.5k or maybe less with negotiation.

We still have 2011 and 2012, recently sold 2013, and the GEN 2 2017 a few months ago ( only had it for a year )
I never really liked the GEN 2, with the exception of the heated steering wheel.

 

[Konicom04]

And a bunch of brakes, several electric motors/generators, and a lot of gears.
The only good thing about that rube-goldberg monstrosity is that it kept the powertrain (transmissions) division employed for another few years.
It was optimized to drive on gasoline (what I assume you mean by 'focus to engine-first') to keep the power plant (IC Engine) division employed a little longer (let a few executives retire wealthy).
A simple serial hybrid that focused on the battery and electric motor with the ICE as a range extender would have been a lot cheaper.
GM just couldn't handle the idea of the ICE not being primary. Ironic for the company who killed the steam train locomotive by introducing serial hybrid Diesel-Electric locomotives.

Im not sure I agree with that. Volt ( GEN 1 or GEN2) functioned as purely electric without any need of the ICE no matter what the weather conditions or cabin climate settings (up to -15F) as long as there was battery charge - did it very very well too.

I would drive for months, until maintenance mode would kick in, without a drop of gas.

I am pretty sure Volt was the only one on the market with such system

 

[Earl]

Im not sure I agree with that. Volt ( GEN 1 or GEN2) functioned as purely electric without any need of the ICE no matter what the weather conditions or cabin climate settings (up to -15F) as long as there was battery charge - did it very very well too.

I would drive for months, until maintenance mode would kick in, without a drop of gas.

I am pretty sure Volt was the only one on the market with such system

Sure, it worked on electric only. It also worked on gasoline only. It's just that they put in a very complex and expensive mechanical transmission so that it would work fairly optimally on ICE, getting fairly good MPG when operating on gasoline. However, as you testify; you seldom used the ICE, therefore, there was no benefit to carrying all that weight and cost for something you used as rarely as you could.

It was the business that hurt. We paid nearly as much for our '15 Volt as for our '18 Model 3 yet, GM paid for 2 drivetrains (electric and ICE) while Tesla only paid for one (electric). This made it a money loser once the federal incentive $$ ran out. Its too bad GM blew that incentive. Tesla plowed it back into making cheaper batteries and manufacturing while GM just milked it to preserve the ICE for a few more years.

 

[Konicom04]

Sure, it worked on electric only. It also worked on gasoline only. It's just that they put in a very complex and expensive mechanical transmission so that it would work fairly optimally on ICE, getting fairly good MPG when operating on gasoline. However, as you testify; you seldom used the ICE, therefore, there was no benefit to carrying all that weight and cost for something you used as rarely as you could.

It was the business that hurt. We paid nearly as much for our '15 Volt as for our '18 Model 3 yet, GM paid for 2 drivetrains (electric and ICE) while Tesla only paid for one (electric). This made it a money loser once the federal incentive $$ ran out. Its too bad GM blew that incentive. Tesla plowed it back into making cheaper batteries and manufacturing while GM just milked it to preserve the ICE for a few more years.

yup - agree. Expensive and complex concept. Great transition tech tho before the charging network is plentiful

It did allow for worry free roadtrips tho. The 2011 is in Florida Keys, Made that trip with 3 adults and two rabbits

 

[GSP]

On (2) they just added some clutches and made the motor the focus.
Electronically-controlled clutches aren't really a big deal. It's not something people complain about with their automatic transmissions.
In Gen 2 they switched the focus to engine-first so the transmission was better suited for use in other hybrids and PHEVs.

The Gen 4 Prius added a clutch to allow higher all-electric speed and more motor power.

The main reason GM stopped making the Volt was that they could achieve ZEV compliance easily with just the Bolt, but they couldn't with just the Volt.
Botl 4 ZEV credits v Volt 1.3 TZEV credits, with TZEV only being allowed as a diminishing share of the credits.
Had they lobbied CARB successfully to make the Volt qualify under BEVx, they might have at least kept it going a few more years. The changes on the 2019 made it more desirable, especially in cold climates: 7.2kW charger on the Premier (or optionally on the LT), engine off down to -13F.

The other reason was that it was a hatchback in a market going crossover.

We still have our 2013 and plan to keep it a couple of years to see how charging infrastructure improves, but man, I wish I'd have picked up a 2019 after cancellation when I had the chance. LT with heated seats for 25.5k or maybe less with negotiation.

I agree ZEV credit situation contributed to GMs decision to cancel the Volt, but I believe the main reason was the cancellation of the Chevy Cruise. Production costs of the many parts shared with the Cruise made the already money losing Volt a bridge too far to continue. Of course, the loss of sales volume for the Cruise was the reason for its demise, as that was enough to make the Cruise uneconomical to produce.

I was tempted to update my 2014 Volt to a gen 2, and the 2019 with heated wheel and 32 amp charger would have been a really nice upgrade for me. However the 2018 Model 3 was a much, much, better upgrade in every respect (except for the unheated wheel).

GSP

 

[Earl]

Great transition tech tho before the charging network is plentiful

Transition tech is fine - if it is used to transition. It can also be used to prevent transition. I believe the latter was GM's intent.

GM's antics to try to restrict J-1772 to 15 amps (~3 kW or 12 mph charging rate), then, later, trying to restrict CCS to 50 kW in order to ensure an ICE was absolutely required was not using it for transition. They were trying to ensure a place for their ICE business in any electrified future.
If Tesla hadn't end-run that behavior by going it alone and proving the viability of pure EV, the world would still think that ICE is essential.

In GM's world:
- 3 kW J-1772 (~12 mph charging speed) and a 30 mile range car guarantees that, for a busy weekend's errands, you'll need ICE and gasoline for the second half of that day since you can't fully charge again on a 1 hour lunch break.
- 50 kW DCFC charging speed (~200 mph) means you get to charge for 1 hour every 200 miles you travel or about 1 hour of charging every 3 hours of driving. This is a bit too leisurely for most people, thus guaranteeing a need for an ICE.

 

[Darmie]

In GM's world:
- 3 kW J-1772 (~12 mph charging speed) and a 30 mile range car guarantees that, for a busy weekend's errands, you'll need ICE and gasoline for the second half of that day since you can't fully charge again on a 1 hour lunch break.
- 50 kW DCFC charging speed (~200 mph) means you get to charge for 1 hour every 200 miles you travel or about 1 hour of charging every 3 hours of driving. This is a bit too leisurely for most people, thus guaranteeing a need for an ICE.

Good points. I often thought that the removal of the EV1 was the fact that people talked about how clean of a vehicle it was. So if that was the case, that meant all of GM's other cars were well, dirty. In their world I guess they thought it had to go, long live the ICE.

 

[Earl]

removal of the EV1 was the fact that people talked about how clean of a vehicle it was

I don't think cleanliness was the issue with GM in either the EV1, Volt, or Bolt. I believe it was all about job protection since most of the employees (especially executives) knew and were paid by the ICE and its ecosystem (fuel, exhaust, transmission, powerplant, lubrication, cooling systems, etc). Therefore, suggesting an EV that would put so many people back to looking for a new job (for which they were not qualified) would be about as popular as suggesting digital cameras to Kodak or video streaming to Blockbuster.

 

[Konicom04]

Long story short - Tesla continues to spread chaos amongst legacy automakers