Norbert
TSLA will win
It doesn't seem there is a lot of support for Tesla Supercharge in Europe. Maybe that will be a no-show.
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Renault Zoe ZE
- Thread starter dpeilow
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It doesn't seem there is a lot of support for Tesla Supercharge in Europe. Maybe that will be a no-show.
And it's certainly fair to say that the 20kW solution on a Model S is slower than Renault's option, both absolutely and (especially) % of pack.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Steph
Member
Most people will charge at home or at the office with the inboard chargers and on a regular 110 or 220 power outlet.
Super chargers will be used for long trips. I would personally almost never use super charger, so it's a non-issue for me.
I believe it will also be an non-issue for most.
Super chargers will be used for long trips. I would personally almost never use super charger, so it's a non-issue for me.
I believe it will also be an non-issue for most.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Many of the EV owners that I know wish to undertake daily trips that are beyond the range of their EV. Mainstream car buyers will require fast charging at locations that make this possible... the Renault ZOE supports that fast charging infrastructure that exists today in Europe... 3 Phase AC.
Steph
Member
ExactlyThere we go. Problems solved.
Usually, for trip more than 300 miles, I either fly in a little Cessna 172 or fly on a commercial plane.
Life is too short to be in a car for more than 300 miles
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Is that total or useable capacity ?
Leaf has about 21 kWh useable - and more than 24 kWh total capacity.
Fluence ZE and Kangoo ZE have 24 kWh, 22 kWh usable.
So are 22 kWh usable. And engine of Renault is a little more eficient than Nissan.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
The motors are already very efficient - not much can be gained.
Ofcourse, a little more efficiency in a number of areas (weight, aero, heater, motor etc) can possibly amount to a total of 20%, I guess.
Also, I think many of those efficiency gains will be seen in the next gen Leaf. We should possibly look at Zoe as Leaf 1.5.
In some parts of Europe, yes. In Norway there is no public 3-phase infrastructure at all, but we have lots of CHAdeMO stations...
EVNow
Well-Known Member
It looks like in Europe, Ideally the car would have a large internal charger (like Zoe) and a CHAdeMO port as well (like Leaf). Shouldn't be that difficult - afterall Model S has them (though proprietary).
Nissan have said that in future they will supply 3 Phase Type 2 sockets on their CHAdeMO chargers... so in future you will find both at 'fast' charge locations...
Norbert
TSLA will win
Since I don't want to distract from the Zoe topic, just a very short answer to your questions: I'm referring to support/demand from utilities/politics/hosts/customers *as portrayed* on this forum. (Let's discuss this on another thread if you want to continue it).
Back to Zoe. Nice little car, very much like the Leaf, in principle.
jkirkebo, you really have to stop spreading this BS.
I have told you that all the Transnova funded chargers are explicitly required to be prepared for installation of 44 kW AC. I even linked to the application form. If they don't have that much spare capacity in the incomer they don't get any government money. And the whole country is wired with three phase. Renault claims that their charger (named Chameleon) supports all power up to 43 kW. I'm going to send an email to Renault to ask, but I would be extremely surprised if it does not support 230 V three phase.
*EDIT* It does NOT support IT networks.
If you don't like the lack of actual charging poles, then I think you should try to pressure Transnova, Zero and other organizations that pay for or install charge points to start installing them, instead of insisting that CHAdeMO is the only way forward.
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The charge locations might have to be prepared for it power-wise, but there are no sockets supplying it so far. None at all. And while they might require them to prepare for it, I have seen no requirement to actually install any sockets.
Public charge points in streets are ALL 16A single phase. I have hear of no planned 3-phase ones so far.
Personally I'm not buying any car needing an infrastructure that might be installed. Before I bought the Leaf (the first one delivered in Norway), there were several CHAdeMO stations operating in key locations for me.
Also, many of the CHAdeMO chargers are at Nissan dealerships. I don't see them installing Mennekes-sockets for competing cars.
But it's a moot point now anyway, since the Zoe is at least 2 years away from being delivered in Norway. Also the lease-only deal on the battery will make it 25% more expensive here than neccessary. They should rethink that lease-only decision. I'm not leasing anything, that's for sure.
For the record, I would like Nissan to incorporate the chameleon-charger, but also Renault to fit a CHAdeMO-port. Why not have both, then you are set whatever chargers you can reach.
Thanks to Mitrovic, Charlie from ZCW and I got a private showing of the Zoe and the opportunity to ask lots of questions.
Firstly, wow. Renault has done a super job with this car. It's roomy inside for the size, the boot is really big and the general design and build of the interior is excellent.
It has touch screen LCD controls, cruise control and lots of nice touches for a car of this price. Others could learn from the simpliciy of the GUI.
There are three trim levels. Basic has what I said above. 'Zen' has the air diffusor and parking sensors and a bright interior. 'Intense' has parking sensors, camera and a dark interior. The basic is Euro 15k and the other two are Euro 17k Battery lease is Euro 80 / month regardless of annual mileage. All have the 43kW three phase charger and heat pump heating / air con.
This car looks like a lot of fun. It's pretty, too.
If the public doen't buy this, we may as well give up.
Here we are in the Zen version.
Firstly, wow. Renault has done a super job with this car. It's roomy inside for the size, the boot is really big and the general design and build of the interior is excellent.
It has touch screen LCD controls, cruise control and lots of nice touches for a car of this price. Others could learn from the simpliciy of the GUI.
There are three trim levels. Basic has what I said above. 'Zen' has the air diffusor and parking sensors and a bright interior. 'Intense' has parking sensors, camera and a dark interior. The basic is Euro 15k and the other two are Euro 17k Battery lease is Euro 80 / month regardless of annual mileage. All have the 43kW three phase charger and heat pump heating / air con.
This car looks like a lot of fun. It's pretty, too.
If the public doen't buy this, we may as well give up.
Here we are in the Zen version.
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