Renault Zoe ZE

[mgemmell]

Leased batteries offer better electric vehicle value, says research - Motoring - Life Style - The Independent


Glass Guide | Battery leasing will give best whole life costs for electric vehicles

"The overall depreciation costs over three years for these electric vehicles are calculated to be £16,765 for the Nissan Leaf, £16,570 for the range-extender and £8,275 for the electric vehicle with a leased battery. A similar diesel model will depreciate by £9,750 over three years."


And this is from UK, not from France.

Works for me. It is an item that has a shorter useful life (and therefore steeper depreciation), and for users with no easy home charging they will want to swap it out very often.

I wonder how long it would take for 3rd party battery suppliers to step in with Zoe compatible batteries... if there's money to be made, probably not long.

@FernandoM - If you are in Madrid we should catch up.

 

[JRP3]

If EV's do not succeed with the Zoe they will never succeed

That is a bit of a reach to say the least. The Zoe is not exactly ground breaking.

 

[Fernando M]

It´s different lease a completly electric car that lease only the battery.

An electric vehicle containing the piece more durable, the electric motor, and also contains the element to be devalued more, the battery. This explains why the devaluation of Fluence is less than diesel and Leaf more than diesel.

The 24 kWh battery of Fluence and Leaf costs 12.000 € (in Europe), 500 €/kWh. How much will this battery in 2020 if the price drops to 200 €/kWh ? If you have more than 150,000 km will be 80% and will be half of his life.

So 24 x 200 = 4800 €.

Capacity 80% = 3.840 €

Life 50 % = 1.920 €

And if you have 30.000 € to spent in your bank , ok. But if you only could pay 15.000 € (Zoe price) a 15.000 € credit (5 %) after 8 years are 18.250 €. In 2020:

Leaf 15.000 € + 18.250 € = 33.250 €
Zoe 15.000 € + (100 € x 96 months) = 24.600 €

Lease battery is more intelligent, i think. Daimler will copy this with Smart ED (in Europe).

 

[qwk]

That is a bit of a reach to say the least. The Zoe is not exactly ground breaking.

It doesn't look that great either. Just another econobox look.

 

[dpeilow]

Wow. There's an awful lot of negativity coming across the atlantic for this car...

 

[qwk]

Wow. There's an awful lot of negativity coming across the atlantic for this car...

I think thats because the 3 phase charging that all of the Europeans are oohing over is useless in the US.

 

[dpeilow]

It's not just three phase charging that makes this ground breaking.

Seems to me that everyone at Geneva loved it, many Roadster owners already put a deposit down, others giving it serious thought. Yet 5 people who will never be able to buy it seem to suddenly want to highjack the thread. If you can't say anything useful, don't.

FWIW I totally agree with Mitrovic, as I know do others.

 

[Eberhard]

I think thats because the 3 phase charging that all of the Europeans are oohing over is useless in the US.

No - all DC-charger are feed from the american 3-phase 277V/480V grid. This could feed the ZOE as well with 43kW

 

[AnOutsider]

I think there's a happy medium. I gotta say, I don't share the super enthusiasm as some for the car, but definitely see it as a positive step (mainly on pricing and looks) for the general acceptance of EVs (though I didn't think that was a huge obstacle over there).

I think if Nissan did something similar across this way, they'd do things that would appeal more to (and thus excite) the "american mentality"

 

[qwk]

It's not just three phase charging that makes this ground breaking.

Seems to me that everyone at Geneva loved it, many Roadster owners already put a deposit down, others giving it serious thought. Yet 5 people who will never be able to buy it seem to suddenly want to highjack the thread. If you can't say anything useful, don't.

Woah, I just merely shared an opinion that agrees with what 99% of Americans think of EV's. If you guys think that the Zoe is going to impress anybody but the EV enthusiast, you are dead wrong. A car like the Zoe is not going to help EV adoption in the US. Two different cultures I guess.

I think Tesla is actually going about it the right way. Sure they are pricey now, but I bet there aren't too many Americans that would refuse their cars if they could afford them.

 

[JRP3]

Yet 5 people who will never be able to buy it seem to suddenly want to highjack the thread. If you can't say anything useful, don't.

So if we aren't on the correct side of the Atlantic we aren't allowed to have an opinion? Sorry, I'm glad you like the car, it may be a step in the right direction, but I reserve the right to not see it as the second coming of EV's, and express that opinion. Not sure why some are so sensitive about this car.

 

[dpeilow]

Curious as to what would be the second coming of EVs?


Here's why I do think this will be a breakthrough in the minds of the public:

1) It's pretty, not ugly. It has the same qualities as e.g. the Fiat 500 without slavishly copying it.

2) There are econoboxes and there are premium small hatchbacks, and this is definitely the latter.

3) It has the same fun factor as other cars of its ilk that made them well known and loved. I still have a soft spot for the Renault 5 I owned 15 years ago for that reason - it was a hoot to drive.

4) Renault are smart enough to have made 'feminine' and 'masculine' interior for broad appeal. No l'Oreal Paris perfume dispenser for me thanks.

5) It's the first mass-market EV to have genuine 100 mile range.

6) It's the cheapest EV that is a real car. It's the same price as the equivalent spec Renault Clio (Zoe's ICEy sister).

7) Renault will undoubtedly throw their considerable marketing knowhow behind it (I wonder if Papa will buy one for Nicole?).

8) Last but not least, yes I can rapid charge it on an EVSE the size of a shoebox that I can install at home and have work install at minimal expense.


Renault have undoubtedly built the 'Model T' - it's affordable for a large chunk of the public. Now let's see if petrol prices are actually high enough to make them switch.

 

[Mitrovic]

This is exactly what I think, too:

Curious as to what would be the second coming of EVs?


Here's why I do think this will be a breakthrough in the minds of the public:

1) It's pretty, not ugly. It has the same qualities as e.g. the Fiat 500 without slavishly copying it.

2) There are econoboxes and there are premium small hatchbacks, and this is definitely the latter.

3) It has the same fun factor as other cars of its ilk that made them well known and loved. I still have a soft spot for the Renault 5 I owned 15 years ago for that reason - it was a hoot to drive.

4) Renault are smart enough to have made 'feminine' and 'masculine' interior for broad appeal. No l'Oreal Paris perfume dispenser for me thanks.

5) It's the first mass-market EV to have genuine 100 mile range.

6) It's the cheapest EV that is a real car. It's the same price as the equivalent spec Renault Clio (Zoe's ICEy sister).

7) Renault will undoubtedly throw their considerable marketing knowhow behind it (I wonder if Papa will buy one for Nicole?).

8) Last but not least, yes I can rapid charge it on an EVSE the size of a shoebox that I can install at home and have work install at minimal expense.


Renault have undoubtedly built the 'Model T' - it's affordable for a large chunk of the public. Now let's see if petrol prices are actually high enough to make them switch.

 

[JRP3]

5) It's the first mass-market EV to have genuine 100 mile range.

Have we seen independent real world verification of that? The numbers from Renault seem to show it as having slightly more range than the LEAF in similar conditions.

6) It's the cheapest EV that is a real car. It's the same price as the equivalent spec Renault Clio (Zoe's ICEy sister).

Is that including the battery lease cost, and if so for what time period?

 

[mgemmell]

Dudes. Lets cool it down. This is above all a fun discussion...

Woah, I just merely shared an opinion that agrees with what 99% of Americans think of EV's. If you guys think that the Zoe is going to impress anybody but the EV enthusiast, you are dead wrong. A car like the Zoe is not going to help EV adoption in the US. Two different cultures I guess.

Correct... for the large part of the car buying public, buying a car is firstly about desire and image. Logic and sense comes in a poor second. Look at us... we bought Roadsters!
Building cars that people lust after is vital to shake off the sad image that electric cars have up to now and I applaud Tesla's work and buy their products almost blindly.

Its awesome that Tesla are fighting that corner ,and it's awesome that Renault are fighting alongside them. They are aiming at the 50% of the planet that take decisions with their head (not their wedding tackle), and the other 49% that need their decisions approved by the first 50%.

Renault and Tesla are on the same side and each have particular strengths.

...Renault have undoubtedly built the 'Model T' - it's affordable for a large chunk of the public.

It looks good, especially if Nissan take it to countries where Renault aren't. Let's see if it reaches our (ever rising) expectations.

Mark

 

[ElSupreme]

Is that including the battery lease cost, and if so for what time period?

I don't think so. But if you think of leasing the battery as purchasing fuel it is probably cheaper to lease the battery. Especially in Europe.

 

[Hache]

According to some blogs, Zoe would consume 15 kwh for 100 km (about 62 miles). Compared to my current car, it's between 4 to 6 times cheaper in France. It would take monthly 1000km (620 miles) to offset the battery leasing cost.

 

[Mitrovic]

I've driven the Fluence and I really had the impression that It can have more then 150 Km real world range.
I guess nobody independent has driven the Zoe so far, but if Renault says that the Zoe has a better range ( and with everything we know so far, it really has ), then we will have a real whorl drange of more then 150 Km.
I'm impressed with the car, impressed with the charging possibility and impressed with the price.

I do not understand why they are so negative comments about this car. People who do not believe in electric cars have less negative comments about the Zoe, then I have read here.
So, I hope there will not be a movie called: "Who killed the electric car 2: the electric car drivers!"

We will see what the delivered product will be and how it will be in real life. But I'm certainly eagerly awaiting to drive around in this car!

 

[JRP3]

I'm fine with the car, I hope it's great, I just don't understand all the excitement over what appears to be a decent but not amazing EV, and I don't get the excitement over the battery lease, which just tries to hide the battery cost. What if someone tried to sell a car for a really low price, but you leased the motor and transmission? Since you can lease the entire vehicle as a whole I don't see the benefit. It's quite possible I'm missing something in the big picture, but it just seems like a marketing trick.

 

[Mitrovic]

JRP3: Come over the atlantic next november , I invite you, and let's kill some kilometers in the Zoe, and then we will both know!