Replacing 14-50 with HPWC, outlet on the wrong side of the stud

[Glamisduner]

So I was planning on hooking up my HPWC, but it looks like the bracket they give you expectes the outlet to be on the left side of the stud.

Is my best option to use drywall anchors or is there a better way?

 

[Evbwcaer]

You could hit the stud with the two holes on the left side of the bracket. Those alone would pretty stout, but you should probably add sheetrock anchors on the right side. Another option would be to span the two studs with thick plywood or two short 2x4's and then screw the bracket to the wood.

 

[Glamisduner]

You could hit the stud with the two holes on the left side of the bracket. Those alone would pretty stout, but you should probably add sheetrock anchors on the right side. Another option would be to span the two studs with thick plywood or two short 2x4's and then screw the bracket to the wood.

It looks like I would need to fill in the broken drywall gap first to give it a good backing?

Also the wires behind he 14-50 are 4awg, I'm not even sure if they will fit through the opening in the back of the HPWC.

 

[Petra]

Could you mount the wall connector to the stud via the two center holes on the bracket, attach a box to where the outlet used to be, and run some flex conduit or something from the box to the bottom entry on the wall connector?

 

[Glamisduner]

Could you mount the wall connector to the stud via the two center holes on the bracket, attach a box to where the outlet used to be, and run some flex conduit or something from the box to the bottom entry on the wall connector?

Might be an option, I was hoping for a clean look though. meaning the wires come in through the back?

The wires are THHN, so not sure if they have to go through conduit to go from the junction box into the wall connector?

Also interestingly the manual says the wires are supposed to go through the bottom hole, not the one I'm pointing to in this picture?

 

[Glamisduner]

Thinking to block off the outlet faceplate with a blank plastic one, then just drill a hole through it where needed. Not sure if that would be to code? Anyways it would look like this only with a plastic faceplate.

 

[Petrlol]

There are covers with knockouts in them. Wonder if you could make that work and get a proper bushing on the cover and the HPWC so the wire wouldn't have any sharp edges.

Something like this
RACO 4 in. Octagon Flat Cover with 1/2 in. Knockout-724 - The Home Depot

 

[eprosenx]

So I was planning on hooking up my HPWC, but it looks like the bracket they give you expectes the outlet to be on the left side of the stud.

Is my best option to use drywall anchors or is there a better way?

View attachment 359608

What kind of wire is behind the wall? NM cable (romex) or is it in conduit?

If Romex I would probably just remove it from the junction box and bring it direct into the back of the wall connector. Some sheetrock repair may be needed to patch the hole.

That other hole in the Wall Connector is for a RS485 communication wire if twinning units together.

You may need to take off the Sheetrock and reinforce behind as needed as others have suggested.

While putting a faceplate with a hole in it on the box may work, it really is not too elegant. Not sure how code compliant it would be (but probably safe enough if done right).

I also should note that the Sheetrock needs to be taped and muded for fire code reasons. What we are there is not compliant.

Tesla accessories are clearly not designed by anyone that works in the trades... I was annoyed by the mounting process for mine as well. Came out well in the end though!

 

[eprosenx]

Thinking to block off the outlet faceplate with a blank plastic one, then just drill a hole through it where needed. Not sure if that would be to code? Anyways it would look like this only with a plastic faceplate.


View attachment 359649

You could also get an extended electrical box with a knockout in the top. Then use something like this to offset connect to the bottom entry of a Wall Connector (which might let you shift the wall connector left a bit onto the stud). Not the most elegant but it would be code compliant. Could also splice the wire in the extended receptacle box (with blanking cover) if you needed more wire distance to go into Wall Connector.

Please let us know what you come up with in the end! Good luck!

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Gampak-1-2-i...MIivGF776U3wIVlCCtBh3WKgoZEAQYASABEgLURPD_BwE

 

[Glamisduner]

What kind of wire is behind the wall? NM cable (romex) or is it in conduit?

If Romex I would probably just remove it from the junction box and bring it direct into the back of the wall connector. Some sheetrock repair may be needed to patch the hole.

That other hole in the Wall Connector is for a RS485 communication wire if twinning units together.

You may need to take off the Sheetrock and reinforce behind as needed as others have suggested.

While putting a faceplate with a hole in it on the box may work, it really is not too elegant. Not sure how code compliant it would be (but probably safe enough if done right).

I also should note that the Sheetrock needs to be taped and muded for fire code reasons. What we are there is not compliant.

Tesla accessories are clearly not designed by anyone that works in the trades... I was annoyed by the mounting process for mine as well. Came out well in the end though!

View attachment 359713

it's 4awg wire in conduit.

I'm thinking about paying someone to install it. I know the electrical side fine but no idea how to mount it and route wire into it and not have it gloating over a big hole. Uggg, but it will probably come out better if I do it myself. I do have a 10-30 I can charge off if I can't finish it in a day.

You could also get an extended electrical box with a knockout in the top. Then use something like this to offset connect to the bottom entry of a Wall Connector (which might let you shift the wall connector left a bit onto the stud). Not the most elegant but it would be code compliant. Could also splice the wire in the extended receptacle box (with blanking cover) if you needed more wire distance to go into Wall Connector.

Please let us know what you come up with in the end! Good luck!

https://m.lowes.com/pd/Gampak-1-2-i...MIivGF776U3wIVlCCtBh3WKgoZEAQYASABEgLURPD_BwE

I'm thinking my best bet may be that cover with the knockout, and replace the entire piece of drywall. Sure i could mud over the hole but that just seems like more work since the wall has never been completely finished. Id likely have to mount using only drywall anchors though, but maybe maybe I could screw some 2x4s in I'll have to play that part as it goes I suppose. I believe they sell connectors to jump two boxes together as well, maybe I could use one to exit the box with that knockout cover and duct the wire right into the wall connector

I think I'll need a whole day to get a sheet of drywall and the 2x4 and then get everything installed. I wish there was some kind of template to help figure out how to position the low profile mounting bracket. I'll try to find that jumper you linked me to as well.

 

[NeverFollow]

I'm thinking my best bet may be that cover with the knockout, and replace the entire piece of drywall.
Sure i could mud over the hole but that just seems like more work since the wall has never been completely finished.
Id likely have to mount using only drywall anchors though, but maybe maybe I could screw some 2x4s in
I'll have to play that part as it goes I suppose.
I believe they sell connectors to jump two boxes together as well,
maybe I could use one to exit the box with that knockout cover and duct the wire right into the wall connector

I think I'll need a whole day to get a sheet of drywall and the 2x4 and then get everything installed.
I wish there was some kind of template to help figure out how to position the low profile mounting bracket.
I'll try to find that jumper you linked me to as well.

I don't like using drywall anchors, it's difficult to get them tight and perfectly aligned and they get more or less loose after a while.
Best would be to put some wood studs on the other side of the Sheetrock and screw the bracket into the wood studs..

Another approach, more simple and quite robust, instead of replacing the drywall piece, is to cover the
whole area with a piece of 1/2 inch plywood, and to screw the plywood to the existing frame studs.

Then it is very easy to screw the bracket into the plywood,
and make a hole for the AWG #4 wire conduit on the back of the bracket.

 

[MN-MS100D]

Why do you create a plug for your HPWC instead of hard-wiring? A 14-50 plug and SJO cord (or replace with 6-50) would make your install a DIY. Using a plug and cord does not violate NRTL listing. It is an approved field-terminated method in the NEC.

 

[MN-MS100D]

Ooops. "Why don't you create a plug..."

 

[brkaus]

Why do you create a plug for your HPWC instead of hard-wiring? A 14-50 plug and SJO cord (or replace with 6-50) would make your install a DIY. Using a plug and cord does not violate NRTL listing. It is an approved field-terminated method in the NEC.

That would limit to 50a (40a charge rate). The 4awg can support higher, assuming the rest of the house can handle it.

(Edit to fix charge rate typo)

 

[tga]

Why do you create a plug for your HPWC instead of hard-wiring? A 14-50 plug and SJO cord (or replace with 6-50) would make your install a DIY. Using a plug and cord does not violate NRTL listing. It is an approved field-terminated method in the NEC.

That's debatable. NEC says the installation must follow manufacturer's instructions, and Tesla says to hardwire, so adding a pigtail may not be compliant, depending on your inspector.

 

[Glamisduner]

I don't like using drywall anchors, it's difficult to get them tight and perfectly aligned and they get more or less loose after a while.
Best would be to put some wood studs on the other side of the Sheetrock and screw the bracket into the wood studs..

Another approach, more simple and quite robust, instead of replacing the drywall piece, is to cover the
whole area with a piece of 1/2 inch plywood, and to screw the plywood to the existing frame studs.

Then it is very easy to screw the bracket into the plywood,
and make a hole for the AWG #4 wire conduit on the back of the bracket.

Interesting option.

I have heavy speakers hung in my living room with drywall anchors that have survived some earthquakes. They are the ones that were rated for 100lbs each tough.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Always risky to use dry wall for structural support. Studs are 100 times stronger.

 

[MN-MS100D]

That's debatable. NEC says the installation must follow manufacturer's instructions, and Tesla says to hardwire, so adding a pigtail may not be compliant, depending on your inspector.

The HPWC was not tested by the NRTL with a plug, otherwise I would agree with you that you cannot modify the equipment without violating its listing. In this case, installing a cord and plug is allowed under under Art 400.7 and not specifically identified in 400.8 under "Uses Not Permitted", and finally, would be allowed under the provisions of EVSE's in Art 625.17(A) [All references to 2014 NEC]. I do not have a 2017 Code book, so it is possible there are other requirements and/or restrictions.

My version of the HPWC installation manual specifically identifies cord and plug installations in their troubleshooting section on page 22: "If the Wall Connector is plugged into a wall outlet, make sure that it is fully inserted into the receptacle...."

And yes, the cord and plug solution would be limited to 40 amps continuous charging but isn't the receptacle a 50 amp receptacle (and thus a 50 amp breaker anyway)? I agree wholeheartedly that if the building load calcs allow this branch circuit to make use of the full ampacity of the #4 conductor, that would be a faster charge and a great solution, but I haven't seen any answers to what kind of wiring it is or how long the branch circuit is. Maybe it was installed with #4 conductors for a reason, such as voltage drop or other required de-rating.

 

[Glamisduner]

Always risky to use dry wall for structural support. Studs are 100 times stronger.

Well to be honest I think the walls with the speakers are plaster, or else doubled up drywall, unlike the garage where it's just a single layer. I'm thinking to try to hit the stud with 2 of the screws and put anchors in the other two. I have just been hesitant to get started as it would be nice to complete within a day or two. Guess I could charge off the laundry plug if I can't finish up right away though.

I think I'll buy a box cover and see where the HPWC lines up as is, or if I can screw some 2x4's in etc.

 

[NeverFollow]

Why do you create a plug for your HPWC instead of hard-wiring?
A 14-50 plug and SJO cord (or replace with 6-50) would make your install a DIY.
Using a plug and cord does not violate NRTL listing.
It is an approved field-terminated method in the NEC.

Unless you want to make the UMC portable and carry with you for a trip, I don't see the advantage to have a plug.
I would recommend instead to install a safety switch next to the UMC.

Here is the extract of some recommendations from PG&E: CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR INSTALLING EVSE

Safety Switch: For EVSE rated at more than 60 amps or more than 150 volts to ground,
a means of disconnect must be installed in a readily accessible location and within sight of the electric charging connector.
If the disconnect is not in sight of the equipment, it must be capable of being locked in the open position (CEC §625.23).
Depending on local code requirements, a fused switch may be needed if the switch is not readily accessible,
or is not visible from the main panel.​

I believe they sell connectors to jump two boxes together as well, maybe I could use one
to exit the box with that knockout cover and duct the wire right into the wall connector

Here is an example of using a safety switch and use a short EMT 3/4" tube to connect both together.