Responding to the "Rich Man's Car" Comments

[MarkR]

I don't think any of us need to apologize for making use of the fruits of our labor . . . we're just just doing it in a way that promotes the evolution of technology, promotes the environment, promotes American interests, saves some fuel costs, and allows us to have some fun driving. Life is all about the choices we make and buying a Tesla is one that makes me proud.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The easy answer is a question: how much do you pay for your rent or mortgage? When you hear a comparable figure it's pretty clear: it's not a poor-person's car, and being rich certainly helps, but good past financial decisions can allow you to afford one on a moderate income. This is what's special about plug-ins compared to most luxury cars: you used to ask yourself "Can I afford to buy and run it?" Now you ask "Can I afford to buy it?"

The answer is yes, but not without givingup skmething else, so I'm waiting for Gen 3.

 

[Jonathan Hewitt]

The easy answer is a question: how much do you pay for your rent or mortgage? When you hear a comparable figure it's pretty clear: it's not a poor-person's car, and being rich certainly helps, but good past financial decisions can allow you to afford one on a moderate income.

Yeah....my Tesla car payment is more than my mortgage. I even put half down on the car!

 

[lloyds]

Nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of our labor.

 

[neroden]

Can get a free Obama phone, so there goes $150, and taxes--most people don't pay taxes just FYI (something like 46%).

You have to count payroll tax (Social Security & Medicare tax) at a minimum -- everyone who works in the US pays that. (People who make their money entirely off stocks and bonds don't, but obviously that's unusual.) And at the median income, most people also pay federal income tax (depending on marital status, children, etc.); and in most states with a state income tax, someone at the median income is also paying state income tax.

Net net, some can afford, some can't. So goes life.

Um, exactly as with any other car. That is kind of my point. Cars are expensive.

Most people in the world can't even dream about owning a car (any kind of car), so for someone to say a Tesla is 'rich man's car' I would say so is a Honda Civic (as it would be in many developing countries). People should be happy they live in a country where have a luxury such as a car is affordable for most people.

Indeed. I don't actually think it is going to be affordable for most people (at least not on a "one car per person" basis) for much longer, as the cost of driving goes up faster than wages -- but we're lucky to live in a country where it's affordable for even a large percentage of people.

Just to add a little nuance to this discussion: In Denmark (and similarly in Norway for that matter) an Audi A4 sedan with a 2.0 TFSI engine (no options) is about as expensive as a Model S 60 kWh (no options).

I know Audi is not really a discount car maker but A4s are hardly "rich man's cars" either.

The people I've met who refer to my car as a rich man's car will tell you that an Audi A4 is most certainly a rich man's car in the US -- way out of their price bracket. Denmark and Norway are countries where practically everyone can afford really very nice cars, thanks to very good public services and very good minimum wages.

So if a Tesla is "expensive" will depend massively on your own situation and of course vary with the place you live in...

True that.

- - - Updated - - -

This is what's special about plug-ins compared to most luxury cars: you used to ask yourself "Can I afford to buy and run it?" Now you ask "Can I afford to buy it?"

This is an important point. The Tesla may be a rich person's car, but it's the car of a *thrifty* rich person, rather than a wasteful rich person.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

[…] Denmark and Norway are countries where practically everyone can afford really very nice cars, thanks to very good public services and very good minimum wages. /...

Updated (see italic):

Just thought I could add some context here.

In Denmark and Norway (and Sweden) minimum wage isn’t regulated by our respective (single) parliaments. Instead it’s decided through collective bargaining in negotiations between the various trade unions and their respective employers' association.

(And) in Denmark and Norway (and Sweden) everyone has the right to join a trade union no matter what. And those trade unions have statutory far-reaching rights for their organized workers to go on strike, because without these rights, collective bargaining would ultimately be completely toothless. And no political party in our parliaments (and in Sweden we for example currently have eight political parties...), would dream of making a motion to try and infringe on these rights. (Ok, perhaps that’s overstating it. Maybe there are one or two parties that would. But it would be political suicide.)

But having said that, trade unions also have a vested interest in their employer succeeding. For example: During the 2008 worldwide economic crisis, workers at Volvo Group (The truck manufacturer – not the car brand), agreed to work less hours for less money in order to prevent co-workers from getting laid off.

The level of unionization in Sweden has dropped though, from 85% in the nineties to slightly below 70% today.

Not sure about the level of unionization in Denmark and Norway, or conditions in Finland or Iceland.