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Roadster 2023
- Thread starter Ian Spencer
- Start date
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Gravity is 10ms^2
60mph is 26.8m/s so with a coefficient of friction of 1 you can go 0-60 in 2.68 seconds.
Cars can actually accelerate faster than that because super sticky tires have a coefficient of friction greater than 1.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
All due respect to NDT, he's pinning max possible acceleration (without rockets) at 1g by just pinning coefficient of friction at 1, which is not a hard rule at all
3G,,,,hahaha,,,i have health problems
want to buying anti-gravity suits,couldn’t find them,,,
i was riding rental go-kart a lot,it will work?
i hope i’ll not make MXY-7
want to buying anti-gravity suits,couldn’t find them,,,
i was riding rental go-kart a lot,it will work?
i hope i’ll not make MXY-7
He has been saying to support nuclear power for years. It's all coming together...That's why he's going to make that sucker nuclear. Say hello to "Mr. Fission"
More seriously, I hope they take some cues from the McMurtry Speirling Fan Car for downforce generation to make 0-60 and 0-100 safe and amazing. Sadly, tires won't be very durable unless that tech improves too but given the CyberTire debacle, I have a bad feeling that tires might last even less than my original S tires did.
Dear Elon,
Center seater with two seats on the side, like your favorite car on Earth, the F1. Hydraulic steering. This isn't meant for FSD, it's meant for people to enjoy. Ditch the flying nonsense. Give us the suspension from the GT3RS but with AI controlling the knobs. Don't make it too fast. High 8's in the 1/4 with a top speed of 200 is plenty fine. We don't need 600 miles, 400 is plenty. We prefer lightness over ultimate range. Keep the removable roof option that can be stored in the back like a Corvette. Give us a great stereo that isn't too heavy. You think 0-60 in less than 1 second is special, try and make it sub 3,000lbs. Now that would actually be special. The tech bros can buy the Cybertrucks and Plaid Model Ss. We want driving pleasure. Hire Gordon Murray to oversee things. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd wait another year for him to have had his hand in the kitchen. Give us the ability to put it in a chill mode where the performance is similar to a Model 3P. Too fast for the street is no fun. And please paint it somewhere other than CA.
Thanx
Best,
Gene
Center seater with two seats on the side, like your favorite car on Earth, the F1. Hydraulic steering. This isn't meant for FSD, it's meant for people to enjoy. Ditch the flying nonsense. Give us the suspension from the GT3RS but with AI controlling the knobs. Don't make it too fast. High 8's in the 1/4 with a top speed of 200 is plenty fine. We don't need 600 miles, 400 is plenty. We prefer lightness over ultimate range. Keep the removable roof option that can be stored in the back like a Corvette. Give us a great stereo that isn't too heavy. You think 0-60 in less than 1 second is special, try and make it sub 3,000lbs. Now that would actually be special. The tech bros can buy the Cybertrucks and Plaid Model Ss. We want driving pleasure. Hire Gordon Murray to oversee things. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd wait another year for him to have had his hand in the kitchen. Give us the ability to put it in a chill mode where the performance is similar to a Model 3P. Too fast for the street is no fun. And please paint it somewhere other than CA.
Thanx
Best,
Gene
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
This is not a route that would suit Tesla. Roadster will mostly be used autonomously so central position would be wasted.
However, your points are all to my taste. Gordon is a hero of mine. I have my eye on:
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
...you think people are gonna spend 250k (likely much higher with new specs) on a sub-1 second 0-60 car, to... mostly use it autonomously?
Just... wow.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Good points. Thrusters just seem gimmicky since they’re just deadweight when you’re cornering. First principles say what limits acceleration, cornering and braking is traction. The only way to get significantly more traction is downforce.
Making a hyper car optimized for short drag races seems silly.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Uh... thrusters also improve handling. Because they get to ignore traction limits for that, same as they do for acceleration.
Handling is specifically why Bosch was testing thrusters on motorcycles- to keep them from tipping over when they lean too far-- same principle would allow the vehicle to corner a lot better with side thrusters, and also brake a lot better with forward firing ones.
In all cases the car would be able to outperform anything possible with just tires and the traction they can provide.
Here's Bosch demoing the system showing a bike starting to slide due to loss of traction, then showing the same bike using thrusters to effectively ignore the loss of traction
The catch is how much fuel the vehicle has available, how efficiently it uses it, and how quickly something like a battery powered compressor can refill that fuel.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
I read it the other way around. This is Rimac saying that downforce won't be enough for 0.9s. Tesla will recharge the air pressure so that it is not deadweight. Elon said there would be 10 thrusters so I don't really understand the logic. Elon is late generally but most things eventually happen.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
That’s a big catch! It just doesn’t seem possible to have sustained performance. Gonna have to beat the Taycan Nurburgring time!
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
How would they recharge them? Compressing that much air seems like it would generate an insane amount of heat even if you had a powerful enough compressor.
I missed the 10 thruster quote so that does seem to agree with @Knightshade ’s idea.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You definitely can't have "sustained" performance, but you don't need sustained... you need bursts of it for a few fractions of a second each if your computer is good enough to know exactly when you need it, just as you're at the limits of traction- a micro-burst of a thruster would let you exceed it.
Yeah- as I say that's the question...
Taycan is what, just over 7 minutes for a lap?
So let's say I dunno you've got fuel for 3 seconds of thrust- we know 1 second of it is a LOT of force (since it gets a car down from like 2 seconds 0-60 to 1 second), so to take a corner at higher gs than possible with tires maybe you only need 1/4 of a second firing? So you've got 12 "super" corners in your original fuel supply... How far does that get you? How many more can the compressor get back for you in those (ideally under) 7 minutes of lap time?
Nobody knows.
Less? But also irrelevant? If your tires are at their limit, more power to the wheel gains you nothing- even if it was provided at 100% efficency.
Only thrusters let you go beyond tire traction limits.
Ferrari BTW also patented using thrusters- So again car engineers seem to understand this is a Thing You Need if you wanna beat just tires.
Ferrari patents gas-thruster system to boost performance
Shortly after Tesla revealed its second-generation Roadster in 2017, CEO Elon Musk teased that the car could be fitted with rocket thrusters to enhance performance. While there’s no indicatio…
www.abc27.com
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
As long as it is 50%+ efficient then it will do the job. 10 laps on the track (followed by doing home) at almost F1 speeds is the greatest (short of err flying) of party tricks.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
It's nowhere remotely close to that.
On the track you're either turning, accelerating and/or braking 100% of the time. And obviously you can't have inconsistent braking or cornering traction.
F1 cars pull 5G's using downforce. Downforce is really good. 0-60 is only 2-3 seconds though because they're not allowed to use fans.
They could do it by just using rocket fuel...
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
But not all turns, or braking events, are remotely created equal-- thus the need to exceed the traction envelope of the tires varies, and thus the need (and benefit) of using a thruster burst varies.
Not good enough for sub 1 sec 0-60, as already explained to you several times with linked sources explaining why.
They're not going use rocket fuel in an electric car (not to mention the nightmare for safety and inability to FIND the fuel for customers)
It'll be cold gas thrusters using compressed air.
A friend got me this after I was able to arrange him some time with an F1. I did see an F1LM at the headquarters. It said “do not touch” I looked at the tour guide and said “I’m touching it” and touched the tire.
