I find the "leaked on social media" part of this very strange. If you wanted to help the Russians, you'd pass them the documents covertly. Intelligence that your enemy knows you have isn't worth nearly as much as that they don't. If the Russians were fed the docs covertly, why on earth would they publicize that fact at this moment in time? Honestly, it feels more like someone in the DoD unhappy with domestic issues who wanted to stir up sugar in the US. I don't know, false leak makes as much sense as anything at this stage.
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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
I cast my vote for this "leak" being a complete hoax.
What the Pentagon leak reveals is that NATO is already at war with Russia, that the Pentagon and not Ukraine is in charge of planning every aspect of the US proxy war
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Are you trying to create the most downvoted post in this thread?
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I'm surprised he gets any downvotes at all, since they imply that the posts are being read
What part of his post do you object to? NATO isn't just providing a huge amount of materiel and military training, it's also providing battlefield intelligence and and strategic and tactical advice. The only thing that's missing is the actual shooting (if even that, as the operators of those Turkish drones were apparently speaking Turkish).
The US has bombed countries to shreds for far less reasons.
It is also noticeable that less positive aspects of Ukraine, like their massive corruption, are suddenly glossed over in the Western media.
Ukraine deserves support, but I don't like to be taken for a fool. Don't pretend that we aren't getting fed plenty of propaganda BS here in the West as well. Do you recall that heart rending story told by that Kuwaiti "nurse" to Congress prior to Desert Storm, on how babies had been ripped from their incubators by Iraqi soldiers? Said nurse later turned out to be the daughter of Kuwait's ambassador to Washington. Do you believe that the Kuwaitis pulled that off without any knowledge by the CIA?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Maybe because it's irrelevant. There is massive corruption in all governments, that doesn't mean a country deserves less support in fending off an invader.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Yep. For example KMT (ruling party at the time) in China during WW2 was massively corrupt (partially why the Communists were able to get a foothold, not that they were any better after they gained power), but that doesn't mean it was not worth it to support their war effort fighting against the Japanese. The media at the time probably didn't bother reporting it much at the time either, given it's largely irrelevant at a time of full out war.
In more modern contexts without an active war, South Korea still has massive corruption (plenty of recent presidents jailed for this), but that does not mean we should stop supporting them militarily to defend against threats from North Korea.
BitJam
Active Member
Putin tries very hard to keep NATO out of the war. This is good in many ways. If NATO were actually at war with Russia then the war would have been over about 10 days after it began. Russia is so outmatched by NATO in conventional warfare that Putin would probably use nukes or other WMDs because he knows he will be deposed (and likely dead) in a few days. Saying NATO is at war with Russia because they supply arms, training, and intel to Ukraine is catastrophically wrong. That's not a knife.
I'm reminded of this joke Zekensky told Letterman:
Two Jewish guys from Odesa meet up. One asks the other:
"So what’s the situation? What are people saying?"
"What are people saying? They are saying it’s a war."
“What kind of war?”
“Russia is fighting NATO.”
“Are you serious?”
“Yes, yes! Russia is fighting NATO.”
“So how’s it going?”
“Well, 70,000 Russian soldiers are dead [now closer to 200K]. The missile stockpile has almost been depleted. A lot of equipment is damaged, blown up.”
“And what about NATO?”
“What about NATO? NATO hasn’t even arrived yet.”
BitJam
Active Member
New Batch of Classified Documents Appears on Social Media Sites
I still think it's very unlikely this is part of an intentional leak. Like with the first batch, there is no significant strategic gain by having adversaries believe the leaked information.
Putin knows his job, and probably his life, are on the line. Russia will not slack off. They will defend Crimea and its land bridge tooth and nail regardless of their assessment of Ukraine's strength. Operations like Mincemeat had clear strategic goals to get the enemy to pull troops away from where the actual attack was planned.
I still think it's very unlikely this is part of an intentional leak. Like with the first batch, there is no significant strategic gain by having adversaries believe the leaked information.
Putin knows his job, and probably his life, are on the line. Russia will not slack off. They will defend Crimea and its land bridge tooth and nail regardless of their assessment of Ukraine's strength. Operations like Mincemeat had clear strategic goals to get the enemy to pull troops away from where the actual attack was planned.
In another recent poll only 6% of Americans have any confidence in Putin. 72% have confidence in Zelensky.
This meme that Ukraine is massively corrupt is direct from the Kremlin. Ukraine was just as corrupt as Russia post break up of the USSR. The Maiden Revolution in 2014 set Ukraine on a new path moving away from corrupt Russian practices and moving towards the EU. Putin can't stand Ukraine moving out of his sphere of influence and moving into the orbit of the EU.
To join the EU Ukraine needs to demonstrate they are politically stable with a healthy market economy. They have been working in that direction for 8 years before the war, and since the war started they have been frequently going after corrupt people as traitors. They have been getting aggressive about rooting out corruption.
The Russians want people to believe that Ukraine is just as corrupt as they were 10 years ago. It's an imperative part of their hope to break the western alliance. Anyone believing these things is falling into Russia's trap.
Why do you guys keep feeding trolls?
Trolls gotta make a living you know. The Ruble just doesn't go as far since their murderous dictator went on his rampage the past year so they have to do what they can to pick up some cash where they can. If it wasn't for them how would we know what Russia Today is telling them to spread?
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Or they could have leaked the real plans to trick putie to think it was a trick. But he’s a stable genius playing 5D chess according to some here so maybe his delusions are telling him it’s all a trick and needs to put all his shovel brigades where the secret Ukrainian NATO forces say they will be attacking. We won’t know for a few more weeks or maybe tomorrow.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
It's fun to poke at them sometimes.
I know it's easy to dunk on the trolls, but they crave attention- even negative attention. Ignoring them is the best way to send them back under their bridges.
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