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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
Thanks for the link. I am now so jaded by WAPO's coverage of Tesla and EM that I tend to doubt anything I read there.
But that article seem ok.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Well, I don't know about these bomblets, but Durandal sets about 10% of it's submuntions to explode within 24 hrs after deployment... that provides enough time for the bomblets to be carried back to the HQ, or just cause additional causualties among repair crews.
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Tiger
Active Member
When I posted this, I was thinking it was actually inside Russia; I'm looking forward to seeing Ukraine orchestrate these kinds of attacks in mainland Russia by drone-delivered cluster munitions somehow until Russia's helicopters, planes and other aircraft are all but extinct, leaving an almost entirely disarmed Russia after it is finally driven out of Ukraine, and international trouble-making deply limited..THIS is the kind of thing I've been hoping to hear. 9 fewer Russian helicopters, ammo, and other airstrip damage. Incremental, field-by field territory gains by Ukraine make little difference compared to going to the source and destroying Russia's capability to destroy.
Ukraine claims a major strike on Russian airfields and thanks US for providing long-range missiles
Ukraine claims to have carried out one of the most destructive attacks on Russian air assets since the beginning of the war.apnews.com
No idea but from what I read as much as 10% don't explode. I wonder why such a high failure rate and why that's acceptable.
Probably not. The bomblets probably have a proximity fuze, but that's 80 year old tech at this point. Proximity ammunition was developed in WW II. Everybody has been using it since the war.
The ATACMS used the other day are obsolete US tech. The newer rockets have improved guidance systems over the older rockets. Russia might be able to learn something with the newer rockets, but maybe not if it's mostly custom chips and software. They aren't being used anyway, so the question is moot until the US starts sending those to Ukraine.
Ukraine did use their first ATACMS on a very good target for that kind of weapon. Scatter a couple thousand bomblets across an airfield and everything is going to shut down for a few days. Aircraft are fragile and blowing a lot of shrapnel around is going to ground or destroy any aircraft in the path of the blasts.
Pappy Gunn was the engineering genius who made the 5th AF in the SW Pacific in WW II the unit is became. He took what was available to him and adapted aircraft to use it. He is credited with inventing skip bombing and turning bombers into gun ships, but he also came up with ways to shut down enemy airfields.
He came across a large stock of small bomblets and devised a way to use them. He fitted the bomb bays of A-20 bombers with wooden latices to hold the bomblets and attached parachutes to the bomblets. The A-20s would come in at treetop level and drop their bomblets over an airfield before the Japanese knew they were there. With the parachutes the bomblets would drop to earth slowly and allow the planes to get away before they went off.
They were very effective at shutting down airfields and destroying or damaging any parked aircraft on the field.
After Vietnam the US worked to reduce the dud rate because the Vietnam era munitions are still causing casualties today. The dud rate for modern US cluster munitions is closer to 2% and Russian/Soviet cluster munitions are closer to 20%. A lot of that dud rate has to do with the way they are dispersed. The container at some point above the ground bursts to distribute the munitions. The bomblets are armed at that time with something like the pin being pulled on a grenade. Wires attach the bomblet to the center core of the shell and the wires get pulled out of the bomblet as they disperse. Some may not separate from the core, or the wire could break.
Some bomblets are designed to sense altitude and go off just above the ground. The sensor could fail and it doesn't go off. Some bomlets are designed to go off when they hit the ground and if they hit something soft like muddy ground, they may not get enough of a shock to go off.
I believe a lot of the old Soviet cluster munitions went off when they hit something rather than proximity fuzes. The American bomblets tend to have proximity fuzes. A lot of the Soviet cluster munitions are very old, probably a lot dating back to the 70s. The US retires munitions when they get too old. There are a lot of US ATACMS that are 30 years old and have been slated for destruction or rebuilding. I believe Ukraine has said they will take them. They will handle a high dud rate. The ATACMS used the other day were from 1994-1996 which is getting near the US pull date so it's possible some bomblets had expired and won't go off.
Additionally a 2% dud rate with a munition with almost 1000 bomblets means that 20 bomblets per rocket are going to fail just with the stated dud rate.
Thanks for that info. My F-I-L flew in an A20 in New Guinea. After attacking a Japanese airfield on their flight back his A20 ended up in the Pacific doing a low level raid on a Japanese boats when it clipped a tree. He spent Three Days at Sea in a raft with the injured pilot before being rescued by a second PBY. The first PBY that tried to land on the rough sea crashed and the whole crew died.
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Anyone wondering if Germany will try to match the U.S. (ATACMS) with their own surprise? The "no" Taurus cruise missiles first making their "just kidding, actually yes" revelation on the battlefield? Bet Putin is wondering too.
I thought of your father's story when I was writing that. My father was attached to the 17th Recon Squadron for most of 1944. He flew in the nose of a B-25 with a 35mm motion picture camera. I always thought he would have loved being one of Pappy Gunn's boffins. He was a photographer who was a frustrated engineer.
The A-20 was limited in the Pacific because it had fairly short range and the ranges for most missions were beyond its capabilities. In 1942 when the Allies were on the south coast and the Japanese were on the north coast. Flying over the mountains the A-20s were at the limit of their range hitting the Japanese bases due north of their base. By the time the Allies were pushing on Hollandia, they had bases on the north coast of New Guinea that were within range.
I’m extremely optimistic that Ukraine will kick Russia out sooner than most of us here seem to think.
Tiger
Active Member
Potential playbook suggestion for the Ukraine (w.r.t. Russia):
Save lots of lives on all sides by targeting the right ones.
Save lots of lives on all sides by targeting the right ones.
JupiterMan
Active Member
Putin, Shoigu, Medvedev, Lavrov?
not very easy - and if done by the West possibly devastating and actually accelerating path to WWIII.
Over time I still suspect Russians will turn on these people themselves, either in the face of defeat within Ukraine, or through effects on their lives through mobilisation and sanctions.
Ukraine conflict is very different to Israel position and requires very different answers, not sure much can be obtained from that interview in relation to Ukraine, where objectives are crystal clear.
Very low credibility source IMO. Basically a shill for the Kremlin.
I didn’t realize I had posted that story before. You have a great memory. In the book I have about his bomber group they don’t mention Gunn or cluster munitions so his plane may not have used that.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Things break down quickly when nation states openly start using targeted assignations (you basically become Russia).
Tucker as a source??????
Tucker as a source??????
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
You did post it a while back. I remember reading it as well.
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