Sad sad battery

[KetchupKilla]

Not really too sad but drop in estimated range at 100 around 1450 miles. Currently around 7400 miles and estimated is at 295. Service center of course told me it has something to do with how I drive yada yada. I have a lifetime avg of 243 wh/m. Tried the whole going down low and charging high. Leaving it at 90% for a while. Nothing helped. It seems to be the new average. That leaves me at 5% loss which is what Tesla expects withing the first year or about 12000 miles. Has anyone had luck in getting some mileage returned over time or am I out of luck. Btw I do drive with % and I have a lr awd.

 

[golfleep]

I'm actually worse off than you, so at least you're not alone! A little over 6 months of ownership, 7200 miles, range @ 100% is estimated at 289. Tired all the usual maneuvers to recalibrate, with no benefit. Just slow and steady degradation. Supposedly it plateaus at some point, but haven't seen any evidence of it yet .

 

[KetchupKilla]

I just ordered all my stuff for my scanmytesla app, so I can monitor the health Better. I know the BMS can be innacurate at times. There will be plenty of people saying just put it to % (which I do) and enjoy it, but it is a new technology and people have concerns. I don't want to end up having 10% degredation at a low mileage. I drive my cars until they become too expensive to repair in regards to value of the vehicle. I owned a 2009 Corolla with 230,000 miles original clutch and drove perfect but the airbag light was on. I spent a few hundred dollars trying to fix it. It narrowed down to the computer needing to be replaced which was about 2500 to replace. The car was not worth it so I bought this. These are valid concerns we have. My hope is that it will fix itself and all my worries are for nothing.

 

[qdeathstar]

Range loss is a normal part of owning an EV...

 

[diamond.g]

I just ordered all my stuff for my scanmytesla app, so I can monitor the health Better. I know the BMS can be innacurate at times. There will be plenty of people saying just put it to % (which I do) and enjoy it, but it is a new technology and people have concerns. I don't want to end up having 10% degredation at a low mileage. I drive my cars until they become too expensive to repair in regards to value of the vehicle. I owned a 2009 Corolla with 230,000 miles original clutch and drove perfect but the airbag light was on. I spent a few hundred dollars trying to fix it. It narrowed down to the computer needing to be replaced which was about 2500 to replace. The car was not worth it so I bought this. These are valid concerns we have. My hope is that it will fix itself and all my worries are for nothing.

How low are you guys running the battery to? All scan my Tesla is going to tell you is the nominal energy the bms thinks the pack has, which is likely to match the displayed miles.

 

[jjrandorin]

Not really too sad but drop in estimated range at 100 around 1450 miles. Currently around 7400 miles and estimated is at 295. Service center of course told me it has something to do with how I drive yada yada. I have a lifetime avg of 243 wh/m. Tried the whole going down low and charging high. Leaving it at 90% for a while. Nothing helped. It seems to be the new average. That leaves me at 5% loss which is what Tesla expects withing the first year or about 12000 miles. Has anyone had luck in getting some mileage returned over time or am I out of luck. Btw I do drive with % and I have a lr awd.

Yes, by plugging in and charging to 90% and leaving the slider set to 90% for a few WEEKS, not a few days.

I also plug in every time my car hits my garage.

I "lost" about 7 miles when I switched from home charging to work charging, even charging to 90%, because I was not plugging in when I got home. I was charging at work due being in the 12th month of my solar true up period, and being slightly over as a net consumer instead of a net producer.

If you dont have solar and 12 month billing that might not make sense, bot for those that do it likely does. Anwyay, my 12 month period ended at the end of february, so during the month of feb, charging at work instead of home, and NOT plugging in "every time my car hit the garage" I "lost" 7 miles.

At the beginning of march, I switched back to home charging AND plugging in whenever my car hits the garage. In both instances I was charging to 90%. As of March 30th I got all 7 of those reported miles back.... and my Model 3P is a december 2018 build with just under 21k miles. My 100% charge is estimated to be 302 and my 90% charge is 273 or 274.

I dont "manage" it, I dont use teslafi, I dont "charge to 86.74325%, I just plug in, charge to 90% and plug in every time my car hits my garage, and leave it at 90% so that it can slowly balance, over time, while plugged in.

Either I have a 1 in a million battery, or, Im on to something.

 

[dmurphy]

Yes, by plugging in and charging to 90% and leaving the slider set to 90% for a few WEEKS, not a few days.

... exactly. That's what I've done since new; I'm a few days short of a year and 15,000 miles, and 100% charge is still coming in at around 302-304 miles, depending on the weather. Very normal, very reasonable 2%. If this horrific "degradation" continues unabated (it won't), by 2050 I'll only be able to drive 124 miles between charges. Hmm - wonder how far my 1989 Chevy Corsica goes now? Oh, right, it's a tomato soup can.... and has been for 20 years now.

 

[KetchupKilla]

How low are you guys running the battery to? All scan my Tesla is going to tell you is the nominal energy the bms thinks the pack has, which is likely to match the displayed miles.

I let it run down to 30% before charging back up for a few weeks.

 

[jjrandorin]

Also, OP, why is this post a separate thread? Its the standard "range complaint" as every other person is making so why is it not in the master thread?

I let it run down to 30% before charging back up for a few weeks.

That isnt what i did.

 

[KetchupKilla]

Yes, by plugging in and charging to 90% and leaving the slider set to 90% for a few WEEKS, not a few days.

I also plug in every time my car hits my garage.

I "lost" about 7 miles when I switched from home charging to work charging, even charging to 90%, because I was not plugging in when I got home. I was charging at work due being in the 12th month of my solar true up period, and being slightly over as a net consumer instead of a net producer.

If you dont have solar and 12 month billing that might not make sense, bot for those that do it likely does. Anwyay, my 12 month period ended at the end of february, so during the month of feb, charging at work instead of home, and NOT plugging in "every time my car hit the garage" I "lost" 7 miles.

At the beginning of march, I switched back to home charging AND plugging in whenever my car hits the garage. In both instances I was charging to 90%. As of March 30th I got all 7 of those reported miles back.... and my Model 3P is a december 2018 build with just under 21k miles. My 100% charge is estimated to be 302 and my 90% charge is 273 or 274.

I dont "manage" it, I dont use teslafi, I dont "charge to 86.74325%, I just plug in, charge to 90% and plug in every time my car hits my garage, and leave it at 90% so that it can slowly balance, over time, while plugged in.

Either I have a 1 in a million battery, or, Im on to something.

If I constantly plug it in to 90% I will be leaving the car idle there for many days at a time. I don't drive the car for work. I am a commercial security installer so I have a work van. Usually I only drive a few miles during the week. I have left it at 90% in the past for a couple weeks And nothing came of it.

 

[jjrandorin]

If I constantly plug it in to 90% I will be leaving the car idle there for many days at a time. I don't drive the car for work. I am a commercial security installer so I have a work van. Usually I only drive a few miles during the week. I have left it at 90% in the past for a couple weeks And nothing came of it.

Thats actually the best thing for it, if you are trying to get your range back. Just plug it in and leave it set to 90% and dont change it, and drive it when you drive it. It took a month for my "lost" 7 miles to come back, and note, I didnt lose them UNTIL I stopped plugging in and charging to 90%.

The fact you say 'I left it at 90% for a few weeks" means you likely dont normally charge to 90%. If it bothers you, stop charging entirely at anything less than 90%, and plug it in, and leave it there.

 

[KetchupKilla]

Also, OP, why is this post a separate thread? Its the standard "range complaint" as every other person is making so why is it not in the master thread?

Because I didn't post it on the master thread

 

[jjrandorin]

Because I didn't post it on the master thread

Why? In any case, I asked the mods to move it, so if it gets moved, blame me, not them.

 

[diamond.g]

I let it run down to 30% before charging back up for a few weeks.

Can you go lower? Say like 10%?

 

[KetchupKilla]

Why? In any case, I asked the mods to move it, so if it gets moved, blame me, not them.

You're a charming person

 

[jjrandorin]

You're a charming person

Because I am asking the mods to move a post that clearly belongs with all the other battery range complaints there? Sure, ok.

 

[Twiglett]

please, please, please, ignore the word "degradation" in the TeslaFi report. It doesn't show anything of the sort.
As detailed in the myriad of other posts on this subject, the BMS estimates the potential range of the battery based on the charging.
Like guessing the range of an ICE based on nothing but the amount of fuel added.

Real degradation is part of owning an EV and is to be expected - but this chart definitely does not show this.
Degradation cannot be recovered - see that blip in your chart, if that was "degradation" it would drop and stay there.

All this chart shows is the BMS range estimate. It is radically affected by changes is charging strategy, software versions and daily driving habits.

Some examples
1 - Left at airport for 5 days. Staff would plug and unplug car to allow others to charge. Sentry mode on and overheat set to fan. Over that time my "degradation" dropped 10 miles. Once I started driving it again all of those "lost miles" returned. Its not degradation.
2 - Software update to 2020.12.1 - amazingly recovered 6 miles of range just by upgrading software. Its not degradation.
3 - Went on a 1700 mile road trip. Lost 8 miles range while staying at hotel with destination charger. Returned home and lost miles returned within 7-10 days. Its not degradation.
4 - I've watch my battery degrade over two year and I'm sure some range loss is real. But as the car keeps recovering miles, I know.... Its not degradation

 

[bedoig]

If there's one thing we can say for sure, it's that we don't really understand the inner workings of the BMS. For every person claiming they've found the secret recipe, there are others with the exact opposite experience. For me personally, the run it low then charge it high "calibration" always results in decreasing range estimates. Like @Twiglett mentioned, I always lose range on extended road trips that is recovered when returning to my usual charging schedule at home. My chart was totally flat from 0-15k miles, varying between 311 miles to a low of 308. I was commuting about 60 miles a day, every day, and charging to 90%. With no change in behavior my range gradually started plummeting to a low around 280 miles. I carried on for probably 9 months like this with no change. Then I got a new job about 1 mile from the house and didn't want to leave the battery at 90% all the time, so I dropped it to 60% for daily and kept plugging in every time I was in the garage. My range eventually went back up to mid to high 290's. It still drops on road trips and recovers when my routine normalizes. I'm at like 35k miles now on a Nov-18 delivery. Take all that for what it's worth. Like I said, in my opinion everyone's experiences differ and claims that "you're doing it wrong" are all extrapolated from a personal sample size of one.

 

[dmurphy]

If there's one thing we can say for sure, it's that we don't really understand the inner workings of the BMS. For every person claiming they've found the secret recipe, there are others with the exact opposite experience. For me personally, the run it low then charge it high "calibration" always results in decreasing range estimates. Like @Twiglett mentioned, I always lose range on extended road trips that is recovered when returning to my usual charging schedule at home. My chart was totally flat from 0-15k miles, varying between 311 miles to a low of 308. I was commuting about 60 miles a day, every day, and charging to 90%. With no change in behavior my range gradually started plummeting to a low around 280 miles. I carried on for probably 9 months like this with no change. Then I got a new job about 1 mile from the house and didn't want to leave the battery at 90% all the time, so I dropped it to 60% for daily and kept plugging in every time I was in the garage. My range eventually went back up to mid to high 290's. It still drops on road trips and recovers when my routine normalizes. I'm at like 35k miles now on a Nov-18 delivery. Take all that for what it's worth. Like I said, in my opinion everyone's experiences differ and claims that "you're doing it wrong" are all extrapolated from a personal sample size of one.

So what you're saying is that .... you didn't lose any actual range at all; what you did lose was accuracy of the range estimator. Words matter. I do agree though, none of us engineered Tesla's BMS, so anyone else claiming to understand exactly how the thing works is misinformed.

Thing is this - I haven't seen one person - NOT ONE - say they've been stranded on the side of the road because of an inaccurate range estimate. Which means .... none of this matters.

It's a tempest in a teapot. Mountain out of a molehill. Much ado about nothing.

 

[bedoig]

So what you're saying is that .... you didn't lose any actual range at all; what you did lose was accuracy of the range estimator. Words matter. I do agree though, none of us engineered Tesla's BMS, so anyone else claiming to understand exactly how the thing works is misinformed.

Thing is this - I haven't seen one person - NOT ONE - say they've been stranded on the side of the road because of an inaccurate range estimate. Which means .... none of this matters.

It's a tempest in a teapot. Mountain out of a molehill. Much ado about nothing.

I thought it was clear (but maybe not) that my entire post was discussing the range/capacity "estimate" of the BMS. And, no, I'm not saying I haven't lost any capacity at all. I've lost about 5% as best I can tell from where things normalize.

Maybe you're not addressing the second part to me, but I never said the estimate accuracy was an issue. We all know batteries lose capacity over time and that the estimates are just that. I was just addressing the fact that there are a whole range of experiences out there that don't all correlate to one usage pattern being better for either pack life or capacity estimate accuracy.